Spoilers The Handmaid's Tale (TV series)

[Shawnster]

I'm not buying that Fred's funeral would be broadcast on the big screens in downtown Canada like that as I'm not feeling the love between Canada and Gilead. Broadcasting that funeral seems as realistic as Broadcasting Trump or Putin's funeral on the large screens.

In my mind it's like Gilead = ISIS or the Taiban or some other tyrannical fundamentalist Middle Eastern government. How much TV air time is really going to be given to a Gilead funeral?

So far my big WTF moments surround Canada's laws regarding refugee claimants who commit crimes. There is no way in hell June should not be in prison, awaiting deportation both for leaving Canada and returning, and for committing a murder (this was pre-meditated, and so she couldn't possibly claim self-defense). Even the fine for the severed finger is ridiculous, as she committed an indignity to a human body.

Im sorry, I don't follow. Could you please share a link that explains what Canadian laws June would be charged with? Yes, I know murder is wrong and illegal, but the crime was not commented in Canada. Canada does not have jurisdiction in Gilead. Does Canada have an extradition treaty with Gilead? Because, if not, then Canada does not have any legal reason to turn June over to Gilead authorities for arrest and prosecution. This is the reason why criminals try to escape to countries where there is no extradition treaty.

https://familylawyerofedmonton.com/...tioned,Government to any extradition partners.

 

[DEWLine]

Canada should not have an extradition treaty with Gilead. Not if I understand the situation correctly. We should be right on the edge of an actual shooting war at this point.

That said, they're also in control of a large chunk of the once-and-maybe-future United States' territory at this point in the story. And Canada's long had a habit of watching what the US does as carefully as possible because our own survival still depends on understanding what's happening as quickly as we can.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Oof.

June keeps trying to walk herself back from her desire to kill Selena...and now one of the people holding her back is right there with her. Sure, they think they've driven Serena out of her home but they'll both definitely (understandably) freak the fuck out when they find out Serena found herself a carbon copy of a Gilead home right in Canada.

Janine is slowly becoming more forthright and rebellious once again and I'm there for every second of it. But I also love that she continues to defend Esther despite the murder-suicide attempt. As deeply broken as Janine is, even she still sees how fucked up Esther's (and everyone else's) situation is.

Maybe Lydia sees this and feels that she needs to counter Janine's regained confidence. Or maybe Lydia really does want to do better for "her girls" after her talk with Janine. I'm sure it's the latter and not actually a prelude to The Testaments. But a part of me still wonders if she's just doing this to deal with Janine.

Speaking of which, is my memory faulty or is this the first time Lydia has called Janine by her real name? I can't think what else she would've called her when she wasn't assigned to a Commander but for some reason that really stood out to me when she did so.

 

[Timewalker]

She's called Janine by her real name before. She has to call them something in the Red Centre, as they're either between postings or haven't been posted yet. Lydia has never called them by their numbers.

I have to admit that I forgot to watch the most recent episode (I really hope I remembered to record it).

It's profoundly annoying to have all the shows I watch be on the same night. I kept trying to remind myself that Big Brother is over now and it's Survivor and Amazing Race that are on, and I completely forgot about THT...

 

[theenglish]

So far my big WTF moments surround Canada's laws regarding refugee claimants who commit crimes. There is no way in hell June should not be in prison, awaiting deportation both for leaving Canada and returning, and for committing a murder (this was pre-meditated, and so she couldn't possibly claim self-defense). Even the fine for the severed finger is ridiculous, as she committed an indignity to a human body.

I took this as the government is using a legal loophole that the crime was committed in no-man's land as a way of doing what they can to take a stand against Gilead. Their hands have been tied in preventing the atrocities committed in Gilead, so they can take the same policy with June as they do with Commanders.

What bothers me at this point is that there are enough Gilead refugees who have experienced horrific crimes. I would like to see what efforts are being done to record and publish the stories of the true atrocities. We have mentions of Geneva, but we have never got a hint that the outside world really knows the details of what is going on--or if they do they don't seem to care. Of course we have our real world examples of pretty horrific things being done by places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other Arabic countries complete with documentation of government sponsored rape and abuse and we don't really do much about it, do we?

Canada should not have an extradition treaty with Gilead. Not if I understand the situation correctly. We should be right on the edge of an actual shooting war at this point.

Correct. It is similar to other countries, like China, that we don't have extradition treaties with right now. Sure, that means that criminals from those countries can and do live in Canada but it also means that citizens who might be accused of being "political" criminals are subject to protection within Canada.

 

[Timewalker]

Well, I finally got caught up with what I missed of the 2nd episode and last week. I've seen this week's episode, and my first conclusion is that Luke should never sing. Ever.

 

[theenglish]

At this point, they are definitely putting on the pieces in place for The Testaments.

 

[Timewalker]

Looks that way. I'm trying to remember how old Nicole was when she went to live with her guardians. Speculation at this point says that June and Luke never see her again and Rita and Moira give her up?

Atwood's version of events diverged from the series in a significant way with Lydia's backstory, so what else are they going to change?

The people commenting on the review channel pages have been clamoring for 5 years to see Rita's backstory. All we know is that she had an adult son who died fighting the Sons of Jacob (though Rita let Serena believe he fought for Gilead).

 

[theenglish]

Looks that way. I'm trying to remember how old Nicole was when she went to live with her guardians. Speculation at this point says that June and Luke never see her again and Rita and Moira give her up?

Spoiler: The Opening Chapters of The Testaments

Nicole grew up without knowing her parents and was placed in hiding the Gilead rebels living in Canada because Nicole's life has always been endangered. IIRC she is in high school when the book opens. She is regarded as a sacred symbol in Gilead. I believe Hannah is still in the finishing school at the opening of the book.

Atwood's version of events diverged from the series in a significant way with Lydia's backstory, so what else are they going to change?

Spoiler: The Opening Chapters of The Testaments

Offred's ultimate fate was never known in Gilead. In the book it seems that all that is know of Offred is the journal she left which comprises the first season of the series, and back when I read it, it seemed that that was a divergent point between the series and the movie. But the way the series has gone and my fading memory of The Testaments makes me think that if June disappears at this point in the season then that should reconcile with The Testaments.

 

[Timewalker]

Nicole obviously knew her parents. It would be better expressed that she doesn't remember them, as she was very young when separated from them.

I'm going to have to reread that book, to see where it and the TV show don't mesh up. Not looking forward to it, as it's not of the same read-many-times quality as the first novel.

 

[theenglish]

Nicole obviously knew her parents. It would be better expressed that she doesn't remember them, as she was very young when separated from them.

I'm going to have to reread that book, to see where it and the TV show don't mesh up. Not looking forward to it, as it's not of the same read-many-times quality as the first novel.

I was not impressed with the entire second half of The Testaments. I liked the first half though because it gave insights into the fall of a regime and really seemed to be building to something that never came to fruition.

 

[Timewalker]

I was not impressed with the entire second half of The Testaments. I liked the first half though because it gave insights into the fall of a regime and really seemed to be building to something that never came to fruition.

The only part I liked was Aunt Lydia's backstory. It's horrible and brutal, but makes so much more sense than that pathetic teacher/date-gone-wrong so she takes it out on the single mom and her kid storyline we saw.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I dunno...I'm starting not care anymore. Especially since I'm so very done with this show trying to convince me that Serena Joy deserves my sympathy. Just. Stop.

I enjoyed June and Luke's adventure across the border, from Luke's determination and equal partnership with June to the surreality of everything at the bowling alley, but I spent the whole time waiting for the other shoe to drop. Problem is when it did, I didn't really care. Yeah, I like that it's leading into The Testaments which I thoroughly enjoyed (and it seems like more than most people), but I just can't seem to bring myself to care anymore. I think the bottom finally dropped out for me.

 

[theenglish]

I dunno...I'm starting not care anymore. Especially since I'm so very done with this show trying to convince me that Serena Joy deserves my sympathy. Just. Stop.

I enjoyed June and Luke's adventure across the border, from Luke's determination and equal partnership with June to the surreality of everything at the bowling alley, but I spent the whole time waiting for the other shoe to drop. Problem is when it did, I didn't really care. Yeah, I like that it's leading into The Testaments which I thoroughly enjoyed (and it seems like more than most people), but I just can't seem to bring myself to care anymore. I think the bottom finally dropped out for me.

I don't think we're supposed to care for Serena. She is not a very nice person and only cares about gaining power--what I can't get my head around though, is how she thinks she deserves to be treated better than other women in Gilead and doesn't realise she's only being used as a pawn.

My problem with the Testaments was the second half--how nothing really happened despite Atwood's attempts to create suspense and tension. The philosophy of it, Aunt Lydia's tragic character and backstory, Hannah and Nicole's status in Gilead, and the politics were all intriguing and top notch.

EDIT: I just realised that the name Hannah is not used, only Agnes.

Spoiler: Status of June/Offred in The Testaments

Also, other than having worked with Mayday (already happened in the series), can someone refresh my memory about what we know about Offred in The Testaments?

 

[Timewalker]

Ugh. Can anyone explain the preponderance of comments on social media that now sees June and Serena as some sort of Thelma and Louise characters?

My understanding of that movie (which I just saw earlier this year when it was on PBS as part of KSPS Spokane's Saturday Night Cinema classics) is that Thelma and Louise were good friends.

June and Serena are not friends. They hate each other's guts. Each would love to see the other suffer and die in as painful a way as possible.

So why the bizarre comparison? Yes, they've cooperated in the past, but they were temporary allies. That in no way translates into friendship.


And FFS, would everyone on social media get off this bullshit notion that the man accused of raping a Handmaid in Season 1 was stoned? He wasn't. He was torn apart and basically beaten to death. Nobody was ever stoned in this series (Janine was supposed to have been, but June led the other Handmaids in refusing to do so).


So let me get this straight. The Wheelers won't let Serena go outside for a walk, citing the need to rest. But Mrs. Wheeler will let her go to dinner at her doctor's house, and Commander Wheeler will let her go to an execution?

 

[theenglish]

Ugh. Can anyone explain the preponderance of comments on social media that now sees June and Serena as some sort of Thelma and Louise characters?

And FFS, would everyone on social media get off this bullshit notion that the man accused of raping a Handmaid in Season 1 was stoned? He wasn't. He was torn apart and basically beaten to death. Nobody was ever stoned in this series (Janine was supposed to have been, but June led the other Handmaids in refusing to do so).


So let me get this straight. The Wheelers won't let Serena go outside for a walk, citing the need to rest. But Mrs. Wheeler will let her go to dinner at her doctor's house, and Commander Wheeler will let her go to an execution?

Yeah, there is no T&L comparison there unless two women running away from something in a car constitutes a similarity. I am curious as to what Serena's plan is--she can't be going back to Gilead, as I'm assuming she now understands exactly what her place in Gilead is after her treatment by the Wheelers. I don't see her turning back to the Americans for asylum as she just got out of there--although that scenario probably makes the most sense at this point.

Back in Season 1, my memory is foggy, but I thought that the killing of Fred was supposed to mirror the ritualistic Handmaid justice that we've already seen.

One thing that really gets me about this series is that the Handmaid's don't seem to have told their stories to somebody yet. Surely somebody in Canada is dying to write a book about Gilead. (I've mentioned that before--I know--why aren't books about the treatment of women in Iran climbing the NY Times bestseller list in our own world?)

The Wheelers allowed Serena out under heavy guard to the doctor's because they are matching her up with him, and to the execution probably because Wheeler felt that there would be no where for her to run to. I think they don't want her to leave the grounds because it would be so easy for her to escape back into the arms of the Americans.

 

[Timewalker]

Yeah, there is no T&L comparison there unless two women running away from something in a car constitutes a similarity. I am curious as to what Serena's plan is--she can't be going back to Gilead, as I'm assuming she now understands exactly what her place in Gilead is after her treatment by the Waterfords. I don't see her turning back to the Americans for asylum as she just got out of there--although that scenario probably makes the most sense at this point.

I think you mean the Wheelers.

"The Americans" basically means crawling back to Tuello, who alternates between getting justice for a few ex-Marthas and letting June scamper back and forth across the border and being an utter idiot about Serena. Why he would believe her if she asked for his help now is beyond me. She's had half a dozen chances, and if the showrunner wants any credibility with Canadian viewers, he won't let the Canadians give her asylum either. She had her chance and threw it away - more than once.

Back in Season 1, my memory is foggy, but I thought that the killing of Fred was supposed to mirror the ritualistic Handmaid justice that we've already seen.

It was, and it did. The only difference was June initially offering him a quick shot to the head instead of running. He chose to run, and reaped the consequences.

The crazy thing about some people on YT, though, is one woman refused to believe me even after I posted the link to a clip of the ritual where the Handmaids beat the guy to death. There were no rocks anywhere in the scene.

One thing that really gets me about this series is that the Handmaid's don't seem to have told their stories to somebody yet. Surely somebody in Canada is dying to write a book about Gilead. (I've mentioned that before--I know--why aren't books about the treatment of women in Iran climbing the NY Times bestseller list in our own world?)

Some books have been written about Iran. I just reread one called Prisoner of Tehran, about a teenage girl who was arrested, taken to Evin (the prison), tortured, sentenced to execution, and then saved at literally the last minute by a guard who had taken a fancy to her.

Her sentence was commuted, and the guard managed to pull strings so not only was she spared from a life sentence, but he was able to get her a house arrest deal. The only catch was that she had to convert to Islam (she was Christian) and marry him. Later on he was killed, and she was allowed to go home to her family.

She married her childhood sweetheart and they managed to get out of the country and get refugee status in Canada. Years later she wrote this book to tell her story and to reveal something of life in that prison.

But you're right. After the reveal of the letters, we've heard zip-all about life in Gilead from the pov of the Handmaids, Marthas, and kidnapped children. It seems the showrunner prefers to ignore the wider setting, as though everything is in stasis until June or Serena are present and need people to react to them.

The Wheelers allowed Serena out under heavy guard to the doctor's because they are matching her up with him, and to the execution probably because Wheeler felt that there would be no where for her to run to. I think they don't want her to leave the grounds because it would be so easy for her to escape back into the arms of the Americans.

Serena's request for a phone means she can call for help, not to mention do forbidden things like read and write. She's had a taste of freedom and they're reining her back in.

 

[theenglish]

I think you mean the Wheelers.

"The Americans" basically means crawling back to Tuello, who alternates between getting justice for a few ex-Marthas and letting June scamper back and forth across the border and being an utter idiot about Serena. Why he would believe her if she asked for his help now is beyond me. She's had half a dozen chances, and if the showrunner wants any credibility with Canadian viewers, he won't let the Canadians give her asylum either. She had her chance and threw it away - more than once.
...
Some books have been written about Iran. I just reread one called Prisoner of Tehran, about a teenage girl who was arrested, taken to Evin (the prison), tortured, sentenced to execution, and then saved at literally the last minute by a guard who had taken a fancy to her.

I agree with your assessment of Tuello and The American government. As I see it though, Serena has two choices. Go on the run or turn herself over to the American government, perhaps promising a tell all confession about Gilead. She didn't kill her bodyguard, which would have been the smart thing to do as at least then she might have been able to go back to the Wheelers.

The Prisoner of Tehran is the only book I've read on the subject--you need to sift through internet sources the get more information, and that's a tough slog.

And thanks for pointing out my name slip up--it's corrected.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The ending of this episode would be intriguing...if it wasn't so damn predictable. I'm mildly curious to see where it goes.

At least Janine finally got see her rapist hang from the wall, even if the means of him getting there were dubious at best.

I don't think we're supposed to care for Serena. She is not a very nice person and only cares about gaining power--what I can't get my head around though, is how she thinks she deserves to be treated better than other women in Gilead and doesn't realise she's only being used as a pawn.

I think you and I are watching two different shows. This show clearly telegraphs with its directing, editing, and music choice that we're suppose to be sympathetic of her. None more clearly than this last episode but it's been going on for seasons now (at least since the finger cutting but probably before that).

 

[Timewalker]

The ending of this episode would be intriguing...if it wasn't so damn predictable. I'm mildly curious to see where it goes.

At least Janine finally got see her rapist hang from the wall, even if the means of him getting there were dubious at best.

What's dubious about it? We clearly saw how Putnam treated Esther. He offered her a treat like she was some combination of a baby and a dog, even though it was obvious how scared and humiliated she felt. Knowing how he manipulated Janine years before, it wasn't any stretch at all that he would have raped Esther.

The penalty for raping a Handmaid is death. I suppose that most convictions for this crime result in Particicution as part of a Salvaging, as most convicted rapists are likely not Commanders. But in the case of a Commander, it could be speculated that it's customary for their executions to take place privately, as they cannot be seen as being fallible. This public execution may be Joseph and Nick's way of informing the other Commanders that raping Handmaids outside of official Ceremonies is no longer okay and won't be allowed to slide.

Or in other words, Putnam was twice guilty of "fornicating" with Handmaids (the unsanctioned sex with Janine and the rape of Esther). First conviction: Lose a hand. Second conviction: Execution. It was time to remind the other Commanders of that.

I think you and I are watching two different shows. This show clearly telegraphs with its directing, editing, and music choice that we're suppose to be sympathetic of her. None more clearly than this last episode but it's been going on for seasons now (at least since the finger cutting but probably before that).

Whatever we're supposed to feel for Serena, it's not working. At least not with me. She's thoroughly evil, a total sociopath who uses her religion as an excuse for her vile behavior and abhorrent views.