Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

[David cgc]

I recognize the case for Halbrand being Sauron in disguise, but I'm still hoping him to be the Witch King (or one of the other Ringwraiths), since seeing him become corrupted/seduced by evil would be a more interesting and affecting story than just one quick mwa-ha-ha Scooby Doo reveal relatively early in the storyline.

I'm a big man and I can admit when I'm wrong. The "temptation" sequence was pure gold of the finest quality.

The rings themselves are a clear departure from Jackson’s movie designs though.
Interesting, because at other instances they deliberately invoked the movies or outright used designs like the Balrog.

I'm no expert on Lord of the Rings, but since my understanding is that this show has no official ties to the Jackson movies, could it be the case that the designs they've evoked are actually a case of common descent, with both versions drawing on the same older illustrations they both have rights to (with the ring designs in the Jackson films potentially being original to them, and thus not something the show could legally draw upon)?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Damn. After that opening, for just a moment, maybe a few more moments thereafter, I honestly thought my wild harebrained idea The Stranger and Halbrand being two separate aspects of Sauron was true.

But nope. The Stranger is an Istari (hopefully one of the Blue and not Gandalf...) and Halbrand is and has always been Sauron.

After all of that turning and twisting we did, the simplest explanations turned out to be the correct ones. Perhaps it was our own fault in convincing ourselves the solution was more complex than reality, but it still feels a tad disappointing that the predictions from the very beginning were in fact right.

That said, my biggest complaint is how Halbrand/Sauron was never Annatar to Celebrimbor and he barely had any influence on the creation of the Three (or did Annatar not have any direct involvement with the Three? I can never remember). Or perhaps he'll return as Annatar later on and have more of direct influence in the creation of the Seven and the Nine? Would require a recast and I'm not sure if the show would go that way.

Nori remains my favorite character of the show so I'm thrilled she's going on an adventure with the Ishtar (whoever he might be). That's by far my most anticipated thread for season two. I'm always a sucker for an adventure into the unknown between a wizard and the underestimated.

 

[fireproof78]

hat said, my biggest complaint is how Halbrand/Sauron was never Annatar to Celebrimbor and he barely had any influence on the creation of the Three (or did Annatar not have any direct involvement with the Three?

He didn't. According to Tolkien the Elves uses lore and knowledge from Sauron but the rings were entirely their own design, with a mind towards preserving the beauty of Middle Earth.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Thank you for that.

But there's still the problem of his influence over the Seven and the Nine and Halbrand's face is now known.

 

[fireproof78]

Thank you for that.

But there's still the problem of his influence over the Seven and the Nine and Halbrand's face is now known.

My guess is Sauron will assume a different form, one even fairer, to entice Men and Dwarves with his gifts.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Yeah, but like I said before that would require a recasting and I don't know if the show would go that way. We'll see.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, but like I said before that would require a recasting and I don't know if the show would go that way. We'll see.

I think they will. He did not even know of the reveal initially.

 

[captainkirk]

After all of that turning and twisting we did, the simplest explanations turned out to be the correct ones. Perhaps it was our own fault in convincing ourselves the solution was more complex than reality, but it still feels a tad disappointing that the predictions from the very beginning were in fact right.

I've learned to stop theorizing too much about most TV shows. It can be fun, but it can also spoil the experience.

I wasn't a big fan of the cult people believing that the stranger was Sauron. Misdirecting the audience is a crucial part of whodunnit stories (does this count as one?), but this was pretty much lying to the audience for the sole purpose of trying to make the Halbrand reveal more surprising.

 

[JD]

Yeah, but like I said before that would require a recasting and I don't know if the show would go that way. We'll see.

They could always have him go back and forth between Charlie Vickers for some scenes with people who are loyal to him and known that face, and a new actor for scenes where he's "Annatar".
I have to admit, I am a little disappointed that by the Sauron reveal, since it was one of the most obvious possibilities and I was hoping for more of a shock. At the same time, I do kind of love that it was Sauron's suggestions that ended up leading them to saving the elves. And I can see the appeal of adding a personal element to his and Galadriel's conflict. The big reveal scene with the two of them was awesome.

The fake out at the beginning did get me.
At this point I'm about 60/40 on The Stranger being Gandalf. We got the Wizard reveal, and he was sounding a lot like Gandalf in his last scene with Nori. The only reason I'm not at 100% is the timeline issue. I can also see all of this being an explanation for why he has such a soft spot for Hobbits.

I remembered something I meant to ask about last week's episode. Was the reference to the new land by the Anduin a reference to Rohan? I swear there was a reference to the river in LOTR in relation to Rohan.

 

[wayoung]

So that's got to be Sauron disguised as Galadriel in the forge, while the real Galadriel is in some magic enduced coma out in the woods, right? Magiced into looking like Halbrand so the elves will refuse to speak to her when she wakes up/escapes/whatever

 

[thribs]

So that's got to be Sauron disguised as Galadriel in the forge, while the real Galadriel is in some magic enduced coma out in the woods, right? Magiced into looking like Halbrand so the elves will refuse to speak to her when she wakes up/escapes/whatever

I don’t think so. They show Halbrand going back to the Southlands at the end

 

[kirk55555]

So, the series is done, and overall I thought it was really good. A bit slow at times, but not in a way that irritated me for the most part. I could have done with less Hobbit stuff in general, and things could have moved around a bit faster, but those are my only somewhat big complaints. I legitimately think this is the best High Fantasy show ever on TV, and I'd say that even if it wasn't one of the only examples of TV High fantasy that I can think of.

As for the last episode specifically, I liked the various reveals. I do wish that Halbrand/Sauron had done more to influence the creation of the rings, and I'm wondering where the other 16 rings are going to come from, since they're supposed to be tainted by Sauron directly helping to make them. I'm assuming that, since Galadriel didn't reveal Sauron's identity for some reason, that he'll manipulate Celebrimbor somehow and make the other rings. I also hope he gets back to Numenor, I don't see how they can get away with Sauron not helping cause its destruction.

I missed the dwarves in this episode, but I guess they wrapped up their season arc pretty tightly last episode. The Wizard revealing his power and taking out the evil people was great. Honestly, as much as they want you to think its Gandalf, the fact that he's going east to Rhun, while Gandalf specifically never went into the East, makes me think that they're keeping the wizard unnamed so that people (including publicity/news about the show) assume its Gandalf, but then the show will reveal he's one of the Blue Wizards. That would keep the timeline fairly intact (sure, both Blue Wizards were supposed to arrive together, but all the Wizards were supposed to arrive by boat and not have amnesia), and give them more room to use the wizard in different ways.

Anyway, slight issues aside, this was a solid ending to a solid season. There is definitely places where they can improve, but overall I think it was a success and I'll be looking forward to season 2.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I think the Stranger is the Man-in-the-moon, a mythological figure to Hobbits and also a powerful wizard, although not one of the five Istari. He could be a fragment of Sauron that was released when Adar struck Sauron with the magic sword. Other enchanted objects exist in Tolkien's legendarium - palantiri, swords, daggers, staffs - not just rings.

The Stranger has powers that the Halbrand form of Sauron appears to lack in addition to characteristics such as empathy, compassion, humbleness, selflessness and abnegation. Halbrand only considers others when he thinks that he can use them to his own ends.

The Ainur - the Valar and the Maiar- are fragments of Eru's consciousness upon whom Eru Ilúvatar bestowed individual agency. That one of these fragments might itself have become fragmented seems like a possibility. Halbrand and the Stranger might be distilled fractions of the Maia, Mairon, that Morgoth forced to his will. Sauron as Halbrand loses his ability to assume a fair form when Númenor is destroyed. He fragments again when Isildur uses Narsil to strike the One Ring and a finger from his hand. He becomes a disembodied spirit - the necromancer - that only has form in the parallel dark realm revealed by the One Ring.

Which makes me ponder - movie and lore Frodo is wounded by a Ringwraith, by a cave troll and by Shelob, nearly drowns in the Anduin, and his finger wearing the One Ring is bitten off by Gollum. According to this series, Sauron is wounded by Adar (in the past) and by an unnamed orc with a spear (if we believe him), will drown in Númenor, and his finger wearing the One Ring will be hacked off by Isildur. Perhaps Halbrand has yet to receive a wound from a giant spider or other fell beast.

That Isildur and Celeborn will appear next season, I don't doubt. Perhaps the show will retrofit itself to the lore by demonstrating how history can become twisted by deliberate revisionism, wishful thinking, unreliable memory and the loss of written records - a "storage problem" of the Second Age.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I think the Stranger will be one of the blue Wizards, the biggest clue to this being his journey to the east. I think he and Nori will stumble across the second blue wizard on their journey. I absolutely LOVE that Rhun is going to be featured in season 2 and that the Morgoth/Sauron Cultists appeared to be from there. The mysteriousness of Rhun is one of my favourite aspects of the legendarium and I'm so excited to see more of it and it's cultures.

 

[KennyB]

Just finished and for the most part I really enjoyed it…….Things look to be getting really going in season 2……which if we are lucky will be early to mid 2024 I reckon……..

 

[thribs]

Have they not started filming season 2 yet?

 

[KennyB]

Have they not started filming season 2 yet?

Just last week outside London. First season was an 18 month shoot. FWIW.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Why London? NZ was good for landscape shots, right? Are they going full CGI? What is there to shoot in London?

My guess is, a lot of interior or more fantastical landscapes that don’t exist in NZ are better filmed in appropriately equipped studios.
Any exterior filming can be done in NZ later.
If you Film a whole season at once you don’t shoot them in chronological order but by production requirements.

 

[KennyB]

Why London? NZ was good for landscape shots, right? Are they going full CGI? What is there to shoot in London?

From what I hear there will still be some 2nd unit shots in NZ but overall it was MUCH cheaper to film the majority in England.

 

[captainkirk]

From what I hear there will still be some 2nd unit shots in NZ but overall it was MUCH cheaper to film the majority in England.

The most expensive show in history needs to be economical?