Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

[saddestmoon]

Whoa! That episode was an absolute banger! [pun intended!]

Was a reasonably intense battle, I thought, and a fitting cliffhanger to end on.

Cannot wait for Ep 7!

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I can't recall Tolkien's works being other than vague about how Sauron took over Mordor. I thought it was a spectacular way to transform the Southlands into Udûn (although the Vale of Udûn is farther north). Just don't think too deeply about how such a contrived mechanism could have been prepared.

I think there might be something to the notion that Sauron was split into two entities by Adar, and that this series is bringing Halbrand and Meteor Man together to recreate him. Presumably, they would cast someone new to portray the reformed being who is the fair form of Sauron. He need not be called Annatar or "Lord of Gifts" as that always seemed to be an honorific to me. There's no Southland left, of which Halbrand can be lord, so that plot thread is pretty much terminated. It was just a way for the show to get him closer to Meteor Man. Neither of the two halves seem aware of their destiny other than being drawn toward it, sometimes reluctantly. Halbrand does seem to have awareness of his past as seen with his interaction with Adar, but Adar doesn't recognise him. I'm attracted to this theory but not completely persuaded that it's correct.

Damn, you took my wild, spontaneous theory and made some sense out of it.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Damn, you took my wild, spontaneous theory and made some sense out of it.

I'd had a similar passing thought but dismissed it. You reawakened the thought and episode 6 dropped a lot more hints that you might well be onto something. Now I'm wondering if Sauron deliberately coerced Adar into seemingly killing him with some weapon he had devised for producing the division. Why one of his component identities ended up becoming a shooting star I can only speculate about, but I expect some of the backstory might get filled in over the series, not that it matters terribly. Not everything needs to be explained.

The broken magical sword that Theo uncovered under the barn might well be the weapon. Perhaps when Adar cleaved Sauron with it, this resulted in a dead body and a pulse of energy that shot skyward. After some time, Halbrand then arose from the abandoned corpse and Meteor Man descended from the sky. The latter event coincided with Galadriel jumping ship. Was this coincidence? I think not.

How did Halbrand know where to intercept Galadriel and that she would abandon her return to Valinor? Did he cast a detection spell on Finrod's dagger and leave it to be found with Finrod's body? That's as contrived as the mended sword being used as a key to trigger the eruption of Orodruin.

Perhaps Sauron can also influence Galadriel through the dagger. Possession of it could be altering her personality like the One Ring did its bearers' psyches. Adar did make very apt comments about her behaviour. A curse on the dagger could explain why she's not behaving like movie Galadriel and why the latter is able to reject the One Ring if she had previously been under the malign influence of a magical object. Is Sauron looking to make her his queen?

Galadriel need never know that Halbrand was an incarnation of an incomplete Sauron - just some dude who disappeared at about the same time that Annatar appeared.

Sauron, who was once the Maia called Mairon, was originally good, although prone to perfectionism. I'd be interested to learn how Melkor/Morgoth twisted him into what he became, but it's unlikely this story will be fleshed out.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The broken magical sword that Theo uncovered under the barn might well be the weapon. Perhaps when Adar cleaved Sauron with it, this resulted in a dead body and a pulse of energy that shot skyward. After some time, Halbrand then arose from the abandoned corpse and Meteor Man descended from the sky. The latter event coincided with Galadriel jumping ship. Was this coincidence? I think not.

Excellent analysis overall and I really think you might be onto something here. I highlight this portion in particular because that's exact same thought I had after reading your earlier post.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Another observation: Halbrand does go out of his way to steal the dagger from Elendil to return it to Galdriel. He didn't need to do that. He wasn't just being kind. It's important.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Oh, I had forgotten about that. Yeah, there's definitely more to that action.

 

[EmoBorg]

A question.

Ardar is said to be a corrupted elf. It is said that Morgoth captured and tortured the elves that he found and changed them into the first orcs. There seem to be plenty of orcs which means Morgoth kidnapped quite a number of elves.

My question is how did Morgoth kidnap them in the first place ? Did he have help ? How does one person, even a dark lord like Morgoth, kidnap so many elves and bred them into orcs ?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Oh, I had forgotten about that. Yeah, there's definitely more to that action.

I doubt that Elendil would have given up the dagger willingly. For some reason, he didn't appear to notice he no longer had it after Halbrand took it. In addition, Galadriel didn't appear to mind that Elendil had taken it after she was rescued. She also prised the dagger off her dead brother, which was strange. It also seemed to call to her when it was taken from her on the Elven ship. There is definitely something weird about either it or the writing.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

A question.

Ardar is said to be a corrupted elf. It is said that Morgoth captured and tortured the elves that he found and changed them into the first orcs. There seem to be plenty of orcs which means Morgoth kidnapped quite a number of elves.

My question is how did Morgoth kidnap them in the first place ? Did he have help ? How does one person, even a dark lord like Morgoth, kidnap so many elves and bred them into orcs ?

The lore is quite sketchy on such matters. Melkor aka Morgoth was one of the most powerful* of the Valar so he wielded powerful magic. He also had a coterie of Maiar adherents, who were his servants. One, the Maia called Mairon, became Sauron. Others became Balrogs.

More concerning to me is how Orcs are bred. I don't think we've ever seen Orc females, babies or children but it's implied that they exist and that they were exterminated after Sauron's defeat.

ETA: * Actually, Tolkien wrote of Melkor that "his might was greatest of all things in this world." He was second in power to his creator Eru Ilúvatar and more powerful than Manwë, king of the Valar.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Considering that Sauron as well as the Balrogs are all Maiar, is it possible that the "Balrog" we saw in the trailer wasn't Durin's bane but actually Sauron himself in another previously unseen form?

 

[UssGlenn]

A question.

Ardar is said to be a corrupted elf. It is said that Morgoth captured and tortured the elves that he found and changed them into the first orcs. There seem to be plenty of orcs which means Morgoth kidnapped quite a number of elves.

My question is how did Morgoth kidnap them in the first place ? Did he have help ? How does one person, even a dark lord like Morgoth, kidnap so many elves and bred them into orcs ?

To me, they seemed to be implying that only the first Orcs were corrupted elves. The second generation onward are orcs from the beginning of their lives. They could just be born naturally from mommy orcs.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Considering that Sauron as well as the Balrogs are all Maiar, is it possible that the "Balrog" we saw in the trailer wasn't Durin's bane but actually Sauron himself in another previously unseen form?

Tolkien doesn't mention Balrogs in the Second Age at all. Durin's Bane killed Durin VI a couple of thousand years into the Third Age, about a thousand years before the events of The Lord of the Rings. I guess it's possible that Sauron could shape shift into a Balrog, but perhaps he would consider it beneath him.

 

[Skywalker]

My question is how did Morgoth kidnap them in the first place ? Did he have help ? How does one person, even a dark lord like Morgoth, kidnap so many elves and bred them into orcs ?

A lot of years passed between the time when the Elves first awakened and when the Valar found them. Morgoth learned of them first and began trying to turn them against the Valar, and kidnapped some who wandered too far; presumably those Elves are the ones he corrupted and turned into and/or used to breed the first Orcs.

Granted, Tolkien never seemed to settle on which origin for Orcs he preferred, but since this is the one the show went with (as did the movies, IIRC) then the story of him kidnapping some of the first Elves before they met the Valar makes sense.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Movie Saruman appeared to create Uruk-hai from the earth itself, but that isn't canon. It sort of implied Sauron was doing similar.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Tolkien doesn't mention Balrogs in the Second Age at all. Durin's Bane killed Durin VI a couple of thousand years into the Third Age, about a thousand years before the events of The Lord of the Rings. I guess it's possible that Sauron could shape shift into a Balrog, but perhaps he would consider it beneath him.

Considering that the second age (after the fourth age) was written the least about by Tolkien, with the exception of the Akallabeth and some other stuff about Numenor, it's possible that he wouldn't have minded if Sauron took on this appearance at a point of this age.

 

[Booji]

In regards to Sauron, I think the chances are slim to none that we have seen him in another form so far. The Voltron theory is way too overly complicated. Meteor Man, imo, is most likely a Blue Wizard. Halbrand I think will be one of the Nazgul. Sauron will probably pop up in the final scene of the first season or not until season 2.

 

[David cgc]

I recognize the case for Halbrand being Sauron in disguise, but I'm still hoping him to be the Witch King (or one of the other Ringwraiths), since seeing him become corrupted/seduced by evil would be a more interesting and affecting story than just one quick mwa-ha-ha Scooby Doo reveal relatively early in the storyline.

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, I don't think we've seen Sauron outside of that prologue montage.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Hopefully, we'll have some revelations in episode eight. Season one is bound to end on a cliff-hanger.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

For those who doesn't think Halbrand is Sauron, remember what he says to Galadriel after the battle:

Fighting at your side, I... I felt...If I could just hold on to that feeling, keep it with me always, bind it to my very being, then I...

In particular, note the phrase that I emboldened: "bind it to my very being". Does it not remind you of the following?

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.

Halbrand does seem to have a thing for Galadriel - something he admires that he wants to possess and control. I'm wondering if Galadriel will reject Halbrand's advances once she meets Celeborn, and in revenge Halbrand will steal Finrod's dagger that he cursed and forge it into the One Ring. So, a large part of Tolkien's legendarium becomes a tale of a spurned lover's revenge. That would be hokey. We shall see. I'm just hoping Galadriel doesn't do the horizontal mambo with Halbrand. I don't recall that Elves have casual sex in the lore. The Eldar race seem to mate for life, which, in their case, is never ending - except if their mate is mortal. As far as Galadriel knows, Halbrand is mortal so she might reject him for that reason also. He can't reveal that he is an incarnation of the immortal Maia Mairon/Sauron without risking her wrath.