TNG Era Ships

[Dukhat]

Is there anything you would like to see in a refit of the Sternbach Ambassador?

Well, yes...I would have liked it to look like Probert's version. But that's not what we got, and I'm fine with what we did get.

As for making any changes to Sternbach's version: There's really nothing about the design that needs to be changed, honestly. I get your point about the secondary hull, but that's just trivial as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Blip]

That's perfectly valid reasoning. I based my opinion on a couple factors:

1. The fact that Riker specifically mentions 'Academy transport ship' rather than just the ship's name indicates to me that this is the actual function of the ship rather than just the duty it was assigned that day. It's not like people would suddenly refer to the Enterprise as an ambassadorial transport when it was assigned to ferry T'Pel back to Vulcan.

2. Going along with this logic, I feel that it would be odd for a Starfleet ship-of-the-line to be given the mundane task of ferrying a cadet to Starfleet Academy. Again, it's not like a U.S Navy aircraft carrier, destroyer, cruiser, etc. would ever be given the job of ferrying a cadet to the Naval Academy. I would assume that the Academy employs its own transportation services for that job, which was why we never saw a Bradbury class starship on screen or in any Starfleet fleet scenes even though it was a brand-new class as of the start of TNG (and it's not just a made-up name like most of the conjectural starship class listing in the Encyclopedia; the ship and class name appears on several Okudagrams on screen.) The warp performance tests could be the Academy's efforts to produce a faster transport to get cadets from new, further away member worlds to Earth in a quicker amount of time.

Likewise, perfectly valid! I just happen to like mine more

 

[Blip]

Their mistake to make. Even so…I wonder if we would have gotten a Probert Ambassador later anyway. Fans and designers alike are constantly looking at older concept work to inspire new designs. That’s basically was the Probert Ambassador is anyway. Maybe it would have shown up in GEN or “Emissary” or somewhere else.

I'd like to think that if there had been an official showcase of the Probert design, they would have at least ironed out the somewhat awkward area around the aft secondary hull where it connects to the nacelle pylons. That whole area really just doesn't work, imo... The Saucer impulse drive is meanwhile is just as much of a "throwback to the E-A" as any might consider parts of the TV Ent-C; a couple of wider exhausts similar to the Excelsior's but flanking (rather than directly above) the interconnecting hull might work. Perhaps these are usually lit, while a single wide secondary hull unit is inactive unless separated.

Is there anything you would like to see in a refit of the Sternbach Ambassador?

An in-universe refit or an outright revision?

 

[Markonian]

An in-universe refit or an outright revision?

In-universe refit: Yamaguchi class (added bussard caps and shorter pylons).
Probert concept: Narendra class.
Outright revision of the Narendra/prototype Ambassador: Guardian class.
Outright revision of the Ambassador: Horatio class.

 

[Arpy]

I'd like to think that if there had been an official showcase of the Probert design, they would have at least ironed out the somewhat awkward area around the aft secondary hull where it connects to the nacelle pylons. That whole area really just doesn't work, imo...

If we're both thinking of the same thing, I agree with you. The pylons I think are designed for the front/back and side looks, but at three-quarter angles they don't work for me either.

The Saucer impulse drive is meanwhile is just as much of a "throwback to the E-A" as any might consider parts of the TV Ent-C...

I can't see the Probert E-A impulse drive. There's a whole mother lovin' Sternbach E-A secondary hull blocking it.

An in-universe refit or an outright revision?

Oh I dunno, looking at the Stargazer or Titan on PIC an in-universe refit is an outright revision. But I guess I'm interested in anything that might come to mind. All ideas are interesting if not ones you'd follow up on.

 

[Blip]

In-universe refit: Yamaguchi class (added bussard caps and shorter pylons).
Probert concept: Narendra class.
Outright revision of the Narendra/prototype Ambassador: Guardian class.
Outright revision of the Ambassador: Horatio class.
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No thanks, I've had more than enough of STO's take on starship design for one lifetime

If we're both thinking of the same thing, I agree with you.

Yep, our thoughts are one!

I can't see the Probert E-A impulse drive. There's a whole mother lovin' Sternbach E-A secondary hull blocking it.

While I do somewhat agree on that front, I don't personally think it excuses those Impulse engines lol. In an ideal universe somewhere maybe there's a logical mashup of the two hulls hahaha

Oh I dunno, looking at the Stargazer or Titan on PIC an in-universe refit is an outright revision.

Honestly, I'm simply ignoring their frankly rather childish take on these things. There's no real logic behind it, especially where pulling a blatantly C23rd design in for use as the Titan is concerned.

But I guess I'm interested in anything that might come to mind. All ideas are interesting if not ones you'd follow up on.

I think I'm too fond of the original Sternbach design to favor getting rid of her beefy silhouette in-universe, so for me (possibly successive) refits would be the way forward. Hell, even from a IRL perspective I'd probably take the Yamaguchi subtype as a replacement overall, with my previous proviso that hull detailing gets a bit of a Probert-esque shakeup.

If I were going to put in the Probert version as an actual Ambassador variant it'd be with enough hull contour adjustments to make it a somewhat believable refit.

 

[shapeshifter]

Diversity of Starship design in Starfleet, 'bout damn time.

 

[Dukhat]

No thanks, I've had more than enough of STO's take on starship design for one lifetime

I think STO's modus operandi evolved from the old Starship Creator video game, where you could take such classes as the Galaxy, Sovereign, Intrepid, Miranda and Excelsior as a base, and then rearrange the parts into hideous proportions:

https://www.geocities.ws/nkeck98/gal154up.jpg

https://screenshots.gamerinfo.net/star-trek-starship-creator/15910.jpg

https://media.rawg.io/media/resize/420/-/screenshots/862/862375a4b956d8deb869712ae504ae90.jpg

https://www.geocities.ws/nkeck98/mir343b.jpg

Diversity of Starship design in Starfleet, 'bout damn time.

There's been diversity in starship design all the way back to STIII.

 

[Arpy]

There's been diversity in starship design all the way back to STIII.

Not often. I don't play STO so I don't know if all the ships posted above are contemporaries, but Trek ships are usually kitbashes of the Enterprise (Reliant, Nebula, Constellation, New Orleans, Cheyenne, Apollo, etc) or other ships (Sydney, Yeager, Centaur), more than entirely different.

...they're also reuses that are the wrong scale (Klingon Bird-of-Prey, Curry, Jem'Hadar battleship, Mirror Negh'var), or reuses of ships long after they should be around (Klingon battlecruiser, Miranda)...

But it's only more recently that you have something like the Discovery, Shenzhou, Enterprise all having different esthetics. Even so, the Enterprise looks Discoverified vs how it looked in The Cage/TOS. That really something, too, given that when new ships are introduced they tend to all look of a certain era. The Wolf 359 ships look D-ish, the First Contact ships (Akira, Sabre, Norway) look angular and of an era...even in STIII the Excelsior and Grissom look similar.

Usually it's only when they introduce a hero ship that they come up with something different – Constitution, Refit, Galaxy, Intrepid, Defiant, Sovereign, Akir-uh...NX, Discovery, Protostar.

All that said, maybe we're dodging a bullet that they don't offer more diversity of esthetics. Half the time I don't buy the timeframes or lineages of the designs as it is. We're supposed to nod and look at the pretty pictures than buy the realism of some of this stuff. And many fans do.

 

[Dukhat]

Not often. I don't play STO so I don't know if all the ships posted above are contemporaries, but Trek ships are usually kitbashes of the Enterprise (Reliant, Nebula, Constellation, New Orleans, Cheyenne, Apollo, etc) or other ships (Sydney, Yeager, Centaur), more than entirely different.

In STIII, there are three Federation starships that look nothing alike: The Enterprise, the Excelsior, and the Grissom (four, if you count the Planet of the Titans Enterprise docked in Spacedock.) The implication is that all these classes are relatively contemporary to each other.

The pre-TNG classes including the Nebula, Cheyenne, Springfield, Challenger, Olympic and New Orleans all look similar, and have 5XXXX and 6XXXX registries. However, if one subscribes to the theory that registries are chronological, then the Steamrunner and Norway classes should also be contemporary to those other classes, yet they look nothing like the others. Granted those FC ships were designed and appeared after TNG ended, but they were presumably given those registries for a reason.

The contemporaneous Sovereign and Intrepid classes also look nothing alike.

 

[Arpy]

In STIII, there are three Federation starships that look nothing alike: The Enterprise, the Excelsior, and the Grissom (four, if you count the Planet of the Titans Enterprise docked in Spacedock.) The implication is that all these classes are relatively contemporary to each other.

The Enterprise and the Reliant from the earlier movie are of the same era, and the Excelsior and the Grissom are similar – examples of the "next generation" ready to take over for our heroes. The configuration of the Grissom is unusual, but it's not too far off from the Excelsior, unlike the Enterprise – which has the same configuration as the Excelsior but is esthetically very different.

The pre-TNG classes including the Nebula, Cheyenne, Springfield, Challenger, Olympic and New Orleans all look similar, and have 5XXXX and 6XXXX registries. However, if one subscribes to the theory that registries are chronological, then the Steamrunner and Norway classes should also be contemporary to those other classes, yet they look nothing like the others.

It's unfortunate that they didn't include more of those starships in the movie. I remember one Nebula, but like a Cheyenne especially would have been pretty great. As it is, I don't look at the Steamrunner and think Galaxy Era starship, and they all seem similar, with similar renderings and details, except pods, etc. Still interesting to ponder what an earlier version of the Steamrunner maybe looked like.

The contemporaneous Sovereign and Intrepid classes also look nothing alike.

I see the Intrepid as more tail end of the Galaxy Era, more a contemporary of the Defiant, and the Sovereign a new one after it.

 

[Dukhat]

The configuration of the Grissom is unusual, but it's not too far off from the Excelsior, unlike the Enterprise – which has the same configuration as the Excelsior but is esthetically very different.

I don't think the Grissom resembles the Excelsior at all.

It's unfortunate that they didn't include more of those starships in the movie. I remember one Nebula, but like a Cheyenne especially would have been pretty great. As it is, I don't look at the Steamrunner and think Galaxy Era starship, and they all seem similar, with similar renderings and details, except pods, etc. Still interesting to ponder what an earlier version of the Steamrunner maybe looked like.

Nothing against Alex Jaeger, but I've always hated his ship designs for FC (including the concept art for ships that didn't make it to the screen.) I really wish they would have used more TNG-contemporaneous designs such as the New Orleans.

I see the Intrepid as more tail end of the Galaxy Era, more a contemporary of the Defiant, and the Sovereign a new one after it.

Well, the Intrepid and the Defiant look nothing alike either.

 

[Arpy]

I don't think the Grissom resembles the Excelsior at all.

Well, the Intrepid and the Defiant look nothing alike either.

They're not Galaxy and Nebula, but they're not Shenzhou and Discovery either. Their shapes are different, but their styles are similar.

Nothing against Alex Jaeger, but I've always hated his ship designs for FC (including the concept art for ships that didn't make it to the screen.) I really wish they would have used more TNG-contemporaneous designs such as the New Orleans.

I agree 100%.

 

[DEWLine]

I chalk the design diversity up as much to different design teams as to the passage of time. Federation's a big place to us, however small it looks at the galactic scale.

 

[valkyrie013]

Tng ship era question:

Working on a Sutherland class, which is somewhate a decendent of the Nebula class, Had a thought while making a model of it, the large Pod that is on the top of the ships, That pod is actually quite huge. the sutherland one is 220 meters long and 6 decks high. So had a thought. Could the pod be replaced with a parasite craft??
You travel to a sector, and you have 2 systems to chart. You go most of the way together, but you split the parasite craft off and it be its own ship and goes off to chart System B while the main ship goes to chart System A. After there done,

 

[137th Gebirg]

I would say put on a carry-pod that contains a multitude of Aeroshuttles, Peregrines, Maquis Raiders or Delta Flyers (or some combination thereof). Conceptually similar to the Hornet-class Fighter Carrier (but for a Nebula)