I guarantee you someone in some corner of the internet is genuinely arguing it's a clever misdirection.
Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series
- Thread starter Cyrus
- Start date
I don't think it was really like a revelation or confirmation or anything, but more of a culmination. The title card changing over is like the Death Star blowing up. You could argue you didn't actually need to see that to understand what would happen, since you say Luke hit the bullseye, but, frankly, that would be weird.
It probably would've helped, though, if the show had better typesetting. It's like the opening credits, you have this gorgeous sequence with the dancing sand, and then it just has this flat, 90s-entry-level Photoshop title card dropped on top of it.
It probably would've helped, though, if the show had better typesetting. It's like the opening credits, you have this gorgeous sequence with the dancing sand, and then it just has this flat, 90s-entry-level Photoshop title card dropped on top of it.
The text on screen did seem a bit like one of those shows set in modern times where they have people text and superimpose the messages onto the screen. So yeah that was a bit goofy.
Also...so not a single named character (except for "Isildur's other friend") died in that calamity? I mean if they had I'd probably just complain that their characters were wasted by being dispatched like that, but still...
I also wonder whether Miriel's blindness is permanent or temporary. Though it would probably make more sense for the story to make it permanent, or have it wear off just when it's too late, since Pharazon could use that as a justification to seize the throne from her, or even just to manipulate her.
I really, really hate the idea of the old guy with the Hobbits being Sauron, but now the creepy priests journey to find him and he's running around Greenwood (the future Mirkwood) and it sadly seems more and more likely.
The Moria storyline was probably the best one in the episode, but...idk showing the Balrog so close to their mines, and alive and active instead of sleeping, are they planning to antedate the fall of Moria into the Second Age? All that, the fall of Moria, the life-force of the Elves tied to Mithril and represented by golden-leaved trees, could, of course lead towards a storyline of the founding of Lorien (or at least of Galariel and Celeborn becoming Lady and Lord of Lorien after Amroth is lost as a result of the Balrog awaking and the ruin of Moria), what with the golden Mallorn trees, and Galadriel's ring, Nenya being made of mithril and Lothloiren being a reflection of the Elder Days by the time of LotR...but again, if they plan to have Lorien...why make lindon look like Lorien?
Also...so not a single named character (except for "Isildur's other friend") died in that calamity? I mean if they had I'd probably just complain that their characters were wasted by being dispatched like that, but still...
I also wonder whether Miriel's blindness is permanent or temporary. Though it would probably make more sense for the story to make it permanent, or have it wear off just when it's too late, since Pharazon could use that as a justification to seize the throne from her, or even just to manipulate her.
I really, really hate the idea of the old guy with the Hobbits being Sauron, but now the creepy priests journey to find him and he's running around Greenwood (the future Mirkwood) and it sadly seems more and more likely.
The Moria storyline was probably the best one in the episode, but...idk showing the Balrog so close to their mines, and alive and active instead of sleeping, are they planning to antedate the fall of Moria into the Second Age? All that, the fall of Moria, the life-force of the Elves tied to Mithril and represented by golden-leaved trees, could, of course lead towards a storyline of the founding of Lorien (or at least of Galariel and Celeborn becoming Lady and Lord of Lorien after Amroth is lost as a result of the Balrog awaking and the ruin of Moria), what with the golden Mallorn trees, and Galadriel's ring, Nenya being made of mithril and Lothloiren being a reflection of the Elder Days by the time of LotR...but again, if they plan to have Lorien...why make lindon look like Lorien?
I was under the impression that Moria’s fall was a very recent thing. Recent in terms of a dwarves life span.
Gimli talked about it like he had been there personally or at least heard second hand accounts from his cousins living there.
Gimli talked about it like he had been there personally or at least heard second hand accounts from his cousins living there.
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Then why did Gimli expect to find a thriving city?
As Skywalker already said, Moria fella bit more than a millennium before the events of The LotR.
I think what you are thinking of is the unsuccessful attempt by Balin (one of the Dwarves from the Hobbit) to establish a new Dwarf Realm in Moria. That happened fairly recent in relation to the LoTR and when the Fellowship decided to enter Moria Gimli was hopeful that they might find Balin and his people, or at least find out what had happened to them.
It's because the Balrog was unleashed under the reign of Durin VI (Third Age 1980) and that's when Moria was abadoned... but Gimli's cousin Balin (in the Hobbit movie he's the dwarf with the huge white beard) went back to Moria (around Third Age 3000) to attempt to set-up a colony there and re-open it after the events of the Hobbit. The colony reclaims parts of it from the orcs, and even recovers/uncovers the tomb of Durin and his axe. Then they are all overrun/killed... but for whatever reason in the like 15-20 years between them dying and then Gimli and the Fellowship going to Moria, Gimli himself doesn't find out any news (well they died), but it would be weird that none of the dwarves would have been like "hey, how come we haven't gotten any messages or stuff from Balin and that Moria colony in over a decade?"
The reason Gandalf and Aragorn know something is because I believe both of them actually entered Moria after Balin's colony had failed (but before the Fellowship) so they never expected to find anything there other than orcs.
The Balrog waking up/being uncovered in the SECOND AGE would be like 2000 years before it happened in the books. The Balrog is uncovered while digging for mithril after thousands of years of the Dwarves doing such in Moria.
Well, the Balrog already IS awake at the end of Episode 7, that's why I'm so curious about it. They could have easily showed him sleeping but he's unfolding his wings and growling at the Mallorn leaf and...really doesn't look like he's that far away from the hole Elrond and Durin IV opened.
And since this show already compresses events that in canon take several centuries...
That's true, but they were talking about condensing about 1500-2000 years of the Second Age plot into the storyline.
For instance the Rings of Power were crafted something like 1500 years before Isildur was even born. Yet we have Isildur here and they've yet to be crafted.
But to bring forward the events of Moria being abandoned would be doing more than just condensing elements of the Second Age into this plotline they'd be taking events from the Third Age as well since that happens nearly 2000 years into the Third Age. So you'd have events from about 4000 years all being condensed into a very small time period on this show.
From a storyline uncovering the Balrog could make sense. It could also explain the extreme scarcity of Mithril if they become unable to recover it. I actually think the books kind of hint at the three great elven rings which Cirdan, Elrond, and Galadriel have were created by Celebrimbor without Sauron's influence and were meant as healing and not dominating.
So with how they have presented mithril as a 'savior element' to the Elves diminishing I'm going to think Celebrimbor perhaps crafts these rings out of pure mithril and each ring acts as like a beacon of light creating a 'domain' around the wearer that pushes out the darkness for the elves. Which is why the three of them split up into different communities. It may also show why Mirkwood (Thranduil's realm) suffers from the darkness more than Lothlorien because of Galadriel's presence there.
If the Elven rings were that important to the continuation of the Elves in Middle-earth, why did Círdan give up his ring Narya to Gandalf, who is a Maia in the guise of an Istar?
Because Cirdan felt that Gandalf's mission, which was tied to the salvation of all the Free Peoples was more important than making the Grey Havens a "timeless refuge" for the Elves, like Elrond and especially Galadriel did with their homes.
If this show were correct, Círdan would not have survived long after giving Nenya away. It also doesn't account for how the Mirkwood Elves and other Elves in Middle-earth survived. I know the showrunners are trying to ramp up the jeopardy, but it doesn't make any sense.
The Mirkwood elves did have more underground cave stuff going on which wouldn't seem very "elvish-like" compared to the other realms.
I said when the whole mithril origin and ability to be the 'light for the elves' I thought it was a possible red herring in that Gilgilad does not realize Sauron survived and the darkness/dying is a result of that darkness growing.
So what I would theorize is that the mithril acts as kind of like an artificial version of the 'light of vala' and helps to create buffer zones. That elves can still subsist outside of said buffer zones, but they are then more exposed to the darkness spreading in the lands as the power grows. The ones in the buffer zones around the three great rings are more protected giving them lush/fertile lands free of said darkness that an elvish community living outside of the 'buffer zone of a ring' would not get.
Sure, I was talking about the book canon. Also in the book canon, only Nenya is made from mithril, and is the most powerful of the rings because of that, not because mithril is tied to the elven "life-force" or anything like that, but because mithril is the metal that is the least corrupted by Morgoth's influence.
In the books you could even argue that the Rings might even have been detrimental to the Elves of Rivendell and Lorien. They preserved those places by lessening the influence of Time on them, and after the One Ring was destroyed and Nenya and Vilya lost their powerboth Rivendell and Lorien were quickly abandoned. When Aragorn dies Arwen says no one walks in the Gardens of Rivendell anymore and Lorien is explicitly mentioned as abandoned and even the forest itself appears to be dying when Arwen goes there to die.
Meanwhile the Elves of Mirkwood, who never lived under the influence of one of the rings are mentioned as living "untroubled" for "many years" into the Fourth Age.
The show seems likely to tie itself in knots and create logical inconsistencies that it can't undo except by handwaving or dei ex machina. We shall see...provided it runs its full five seasons or whatever they had planned. We've had nine-hours' worth this season - three feature films - and the story has advanced precious little.
I sure hope so.
As the show has a planned 5 season story arc and the Second Age spans thousands of years it was inevtiable that storylines were condensed and/or changed for practical and storytelling reasons. I'm not up to the lore like some here but central characters like Elendil and Isildur appear much later after the rings were forged but you need to have known characters for each storyline that people can attach to - you can't just build up unknown characters for 4 seasons and then toss them aside in the 5th to introduce named characters.
Purists will (and have) cried foul and i understand them but this show cost hundreds of millions and the general audience doesn't know anything about the appendices, the Silmarillion or maybe even the books - they have seen those long movies about some dudes fighting evil and a ring being tossed into a volcano but that's it. At best they will remember the name Isildur because he appeared at the very start of the movie and maybe they remember Galadriel but that's about it so i have zero problems if the show changes up certain eventsor pulls characters forward in the storylines.
In any way i really like the show - elements i am familiar with appear, some mystery no one can solve at the moment and big key elements are forming up. Fantastic!
Balrog!!!
I actually wish they hadn't revealed the Balrog. Just had the leaf land on something and then burn to ash almost instantly, maybe accompanied by the ominous sound of something breathing. The Balrog isn't supposed to awaken until the Dwarves start really digging deep into those mithril veins.
I think showing it will allow the show to build up the tension as we see them getting closer and closer to it as the Moria storyline progresses. I guess you could get that a little with just hint of it, but I think it gets more tension out of it if we know it's the Balrog.
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