Thirded.
Why Is "Into Darkness" So [imagine a different, more accurate past participle here]?
- Thread starter TedShatner10
- Start date
Yes. We've been reading the comments. I think everyone's got that part.
However, as this thread is specifically about a different movie, perhaps you could provide a link to that article you mentioned writing, and post it in a thread which IS about the 2009 movie?
Just a thought.
A Second Look at "STAR TREK" - LADY LAVINIA'S DOMAIN — LiveJournal
I've quoted @Dee1891 's post and added it to the Review & Discussion thread for the 2009 movie:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the...-thread-spoilers.90455/page-136#post-14283614
Nah, it gets the right amount of derision.
(IN MY OPINION, holster your phasers, folks
)
For me ItD was everything I was hoping they wouldn't do with the reboot films - infinite possibilities to explore, and they went the most uninspired route possible by going with a remake. Of a film they'd never be able to live up to. And then lied about it. And that's before we even get to the film itself, which isn't great as a retread or as its own beast. So yeah, it's down at the bottom of my list with ST5 and Nemesis.
What Trek films have done since TWOK.
Simply by being derivative they'd set the bar incredibly high in terms of surpassing the original. Not that there aren't remakes that are better than the original work, but it takes a level of discipline that I'm not sure the NUniverse folks had or were necessarily looking to have.
Nice course correction there, w the word “derivative” as it really wasn’t a remake, as has been pointed out here ad nauseam. But they ‘re right.
Someone above mentioned TMP, McCoy checking on Kirk’s fitness. GR, Wise, etc were from the Builders and WWII gen, when “professionalism” was the thing and one graduated from bro to adult. Now we all just want to stay bros (and sis’s? , not sure of the term).
When we went from an older client or customer being fine with being addressed as Mrs. Lorenz, say, to the era when she would say, “Oh, please, that’s my mother.”
Pine by my calculations was only 5 years younger than Shatner in pilot #2. But much more bro, as is Spock, even. When I see JJ, he looks like perennially trying to be nerdy-hip-youngster.
Not howling at the moon, here, there are plusses to our time, but this has been well documented iirc in a book called the sibling society. We’re all equals or near peers now.
Someone above mentioned TMP, McCoy checking on Kirk’s fitness. GR, Wise, etc were from the Builders and WWII gen, when “professionalism” was the thing and one graduated from bro to adult. Now we all just want to stay bros (and sis’s? , not sure of the term).
When we went from an older client or customer being fine with being addressed as Mrs. Lorenz, say, to the era when she would say, “Oh, please, that’s my mother.”
Pine by my calculations was only 5 years younger than Shatner in pilot #2. But much more bro, as is Spock, even. When I see JJ, he looks like perennially trying to be nerdy-hip-youngster.
Not howling at the moon, here, there are plusses to our time, but this has been well documented iirc in a book called the sibling society. We’re all equals or near peers now.
A superior being would never deign to hide under a fake identity.
I'm laughing at such a feeble attempt.
I'm laughing at such a feeble attempt.
To my mind, treating it as derivative basically sets up ID to never succeed. So, I leave TWOK aside because I prefer to watch the film on it's own merits and it's own story.
I find the story different enough that I don't personally feel it's derivative either (though it definitely tries to echo some of the same story beats, some more successfully than others), but I understand why it was an issue for others.
I do as well. I'm not saying it can't cause issues, but I am saying that it helps approach the film as part of the Kelvin Universe, rather than stacking TWOK and ID. Khan has a completely different experience from TWOK, including being directly manipulated by someone rather than being in control. There are a number of different factors that impact this situation to be quite different, while still be informative about some of the prime characters. Which is how I always treat ST 09 as well.
It is literally derived from Space Seed and TWOK.
Certainly a different story.
I get they wanted Cumberbund. But tv and movies are visual/aural media. He doesn’t look/sound like the Khan we knew and loved. Just leave him John Whatever his name was and it’s a better movie. Or hire someone who looks and sounds like Montalban. Or a real Sikh actor even.
Cumber as Khan was offputting.
The yell sealed the deal and took me right out of the story.
Ymmv and almost certainly does.
Certainly a different story.
I get they wanted Cumberbund. But tv and movies are visual/aural media. He doesn’t look/sound like the Khan we knew and loved. Just leave him John Whatever his name was and it’s a better movie. Or hire someone who looks and sounds like Montalban. Or a real Sikh actor even.
Cumber as Khan was offputting.
The yell sealed the deal and took me right out of the story.
Ymmv and almost certainly does.
No. They wanted Benecio del Toro. They had to settle for Cumberbatch due to scheduling and the ridiculous long time it took to finalize the script.
Wait...someone loves Khan?
I loathed TWOK for the longest time. ID vs. TWOK means ID wins because I actually like the characters over the rather savage way TWOK presents the mains. Montalban deserves credit for creating a villain that I truly loath seeing on screen.
I recall Kurtzman or Orci commenting something about the potential backlash being insane had ID's 9/11x10,000 Vengeance crash scene been perpetrated by a man of colour.
Personally, I don't give any more shits that Khan is suddenly a white British man than I did Captain April is now black or Chief Kyle is Asian. It's only continuity nutters who have to force everything to line up who can't accept this Khan simply being different the way every Batman fan just knows the next Joker will be.
Except that Khan is technically a man of colour.
They just decided he should change his skin colour like he’s Michael Jackson.
If in Star Trek you can have surgery to alter your ears, your physical appearance in a number of ways, etc. I have no issue with "the fiction" that Admiral Marcus created being a whole new face.
It’s how I read it while watching. One doesn’t have to read it that way, of course, but doing so could smooth things considerably.