Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

[saddestmoon]

Just subscribed to Prime, and watched the first episode - and it didn’t disappoint one iota!

Loved the character setups, the stunning landscapes, settings - it feels sooooo good to be back in Arda / Middle-Earth once more!

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

So far, I find it easy to ignore when the show deviates from lore. Even Tolkien didn't remain consistent to what he had written previously. I know it's different but that's true for every adaptation to a different medium, by necessity. Reflecting modern sensibilities and concerns is also fine provided the show avoids obvious in-your-face proselytising, allegory, or agendas shoehorned in the show's creators. As long as the overall theme remains broadly consistent with what Tolkien might have written, I will probably be happy. But then I'm probably "woke" - although I am still in my pyjamas.

 

[Reverend]

I guess it's possible but I'm not getting why the Witch-king would be interested in smithing.

Well assuming for a second that's where the show is going: -
1) He's not the Witchking YET.
2) There's Kings and then there's so called "petty kings". It's not always about massive castles, fluttering banners and ladies with a weird fixation on handkerchiefs and pointy hats. Think less Tudor and more early Anglo-Saxon, where they're closer to what we generally might think of when someone says "chieftain". I would totally buy that the petty king of a handful of tribal villages in the Southlands is also a blacksmith. As a point of comparison; in medieval societies being a blacksmith was a sign of wealth, prestige and education. Owning a proper forge was a big deal.
3) IIRC Celebrimbor was only responsible for forging The Three. The others were done elsewhere (like say; Numenor?) So the idea that the leader of the ringwraiths forged his own ring (under instruction) that he thought would bring him power but instead forever enslaved him sounds just like Sauron's style.

 

[fireproof78]

I know it's different but that's true for every adaptation to a different medium, by necessity.

This is my view. I have little concern for casting or whatever label is attached. The adaptation process necessitates change. An actor's skincolor is the least of my worries in an adaptation.

 

[Saul]

I liked episode 3 a lot more than the first two episodes. Started to feel like things are moving forward and got movie vibes.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Well assuming for a second that's where the show is going: -

3) IIRC Celebrimbor was only responsible for forging The Three. The others were done elsewhere (like say; Numenor?) So the idea that the leader of the ringwraiths forged his own ring (under instruction) that he thought would bring him power but instead forever enslaved him sounds just like Sauron's style.

The One Ring was forged by Sauron himself, the Elven rings by Celebrimbor as you say, and the other rings by the Elven smiths (Gwaith-i-Mírdain) with help from Sauron as Annatar.

 

[Reverend]

The One Ring was forged by Sauron himself, the Elven rings by Celebrimbor as you say, and the other rings by the Elven smiths (Gwaith-i-Mírdain) with help from Sauron as Annatar.

I think there's more than enough leeway there to have at least one of The Nine forged in Numenor. And it's not like this show is strictly beholden to the source material.

Plus of course; if it's not in the LotR appendices then they don't have the rights to it anyway, and I don't think they got into too much of the specifics of the origin of The Nine regardless.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

According to Appendix B "The Tale of Years", Section " The Second Age", Sauron starts to construct Barad-dûr circa SA 1,000. He befriends the Elven smiths of Eregion in SA 1,200, who forge the seven and nine rings of Dwarves and Men circa SA 1,500, Celebrimbor forges the three Elven rings circa SA 1,590 - again in Eregion. Sauron forges the One Ring circa SA 1,600 in Mount Doom (Orodruin). The war of the Elves against Sauron starts in SA 1,693. Sauron is taken prisoner in SA 3,262. Númenor falls in SA 3,319.

Ar-Pharazôn, Elendil and Isildur were not alive when the rings were made. The time compression in the series is enormous. Sauron's disguise as Annatar is not mentioned in the Appendices as far as I can see. Annatar certainly does not appear in the index of names.

One wonders how much of the history in the Appendices Amazon will ignore, given they reportedly paid a huge amount for the rights.

Still, never mind, provided the story that is told is coherent and engaging.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

There was no way there wouldn't be a huge time compression in this show in order to tell the proper story. Hundreds and hundreds of years of slow narrative would never work on the screen however it was presented, so time compression is the most sensible way to go about it. Just as long, as you said, the story is told in a coherent and engaging way that remains loyal to the spirit of the original narrative.

That said, even as a young reader, I thought the massive timespan of events for Sauron's activities and the like felt weird. That's another big reason why I don't mind the time compression at all.

 

[Skywalker]

Plus, all of the Mannish characters who are truly relevant to the story existed in the late stages of the Second Age, which just makes compressing the timeline even more sensible.

 

[StarMan]

We're at the halfway mark and I'm still waiting for something to happen that I care about.

I had some reservations going in - though I wasn't particularly invested (big fan of the film trilogy; haven't read the books). I never imagined it would be this boring.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one. Durin III and IV were indeed lusting over mithiril! Durin IV even gave that lovely chunk from the chest to Elrond to further strengthen each other's trust...and yet both father and son still think Elrond has ulterior motives. Alas.

Waldreg (the pub owner who confronted Theo about the hilt) seems to think the Starfall is an omen for Sauron's coming. But is it just an omen or does that actually mean The Stranger is Sauron? Coming from just the word of a Man...albeit one who appears to be a servant of Sauron.

But at least we know for certain that Adar is not Sauron and instead he's a corrupted elf (played by Benjen Stark actor Joseph Mawle!). He really wants that hilt...but why?

Two episodes in and I really don't have much interest in Númenór. I love its beauty and grandeur...but indifferent to everything else, although I do like Elendil at least. Hopefully he continues to share plenty of scenes with Galadriel.

I know a lot of people don't care for the Harfoots but they're one of my favorite parts of the show so their absence was missed. Unfortunately, that's going to be a regular thing with such a large and far-placed cast. Each episode will have to drop a thread or two and this week was the Harfoots' turn.

...which is probably my biggest criticism of the show (aside from the eh feeling about the non-Elendil Númenór cast): I feel that the show's scope and reach is a bit larger than it can quite chew into properly. Shows like Game of Thrones and films like Lord of the Rings managed their respective huge casts by slowly introducing them. It's true that Númenór wasn't introduced until the third episode but at that point we were already dealing with (or also meeting) Galadriel's travels, the Southlands (Brownyn's village, the Watchtower, and the Adar's trench operation), the Harfoots' migration, Lindon, Khazad-dûm, Eregion, and wherever else I've forgotten (not counting Valinor since it was only in the opening). Hell, this sweeping scope is reflected upon the sheer fact that the opening credits doesn't list a main cast at all.

 

[Starkers]

These episodes are getting longer by the week!

That was enjoyable enough, and no Harfoots so yay (sorry @The Nth Doctor). Have to say my favourite characters right now are Elrond and Durin. Still like Galadriel but her fight scene was clunky, one minute she's fighting the next all the guards are in the cell! The Middle Earth section was diverting and the dark elf was intriguing. Orcs are just vampires aren't they!

It continues to look amazing and be well acted, but I'm still waiting for it to truly spark with me.

Stupid question but is the big tower they're building going to be the thing Sauron's eye ends up in?

 

[FreezeC77]

These episodes are getting longer by the week!

That was enjoyable enough, and no Harfoots so yay (sorry @The Nth Doctor). Have to say my favourite characters right now are Elrond and Durin. Still like Galadriel but her fight scene was clunky, one minute she's fighting the next all the guards are in the cell! The Middle Earth section was diverting and the dark elf was intriguing. Orcs are just vampires aren't they!

It continues to look amazing and be well acted, but I'm still waiting for it to truly spark with me.

Stupid question but is the big tower they're building going to be the thing Sauron's eye ends up in?

It shouldn't be because that tower is Barad-Dur and it is in Mordor. Right now they should be very far away from Mordor. I think what's being built is Ost-in-Edhil, which was a community of advanced Elven crafters which Celebrimbor was the lord of. It was slightly west of Khazad-Dum (where the Durin's dwarves currently are)

Spoiler

The tower with the Eye of Sauron would be very very far away to the southeast. If you are thinking in movie terms where they are now is the area before they entered Moria/Khazad-dum and fought the orcs underground and Gandalf did the "You shall not pass" and fell with the Balrog.

Barad-Dur where the eye of Sauron was actually was even FURTHER away than any of the movie ever got because it was still miles to the east beyond Mount Doom (where Frodo/Sam/Gollum ended the ring)

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Stupid question but is the big tower they're building going to be the thing Sauron's eye ends up in?

No. Sauron's tower Barad-dûr is in Mordor; this thing is in Eregion and no longer exists in the Third Age (not that it's even in the books AFAIK).

A dearth of horses appears to be a thing in Middle-earth. It must be frustrating to have to walk everywhere. Hopefully, the Númenóreans will bring some along to speed things up. It must take Elrond ages getting between Ost-in-Edhil and Moria, which is 30 miles or about 10 hours at walking speed.

 

[CaptainWacky]

Found episode four pretty dull and the Númenór stuff actively bad. Hated the stupid "they took our jobs!" reason the Númenórean men had for hating the elves. Can't they just be jealous of elven immortality and men's exclusion from Valinor like in the books? I've tried to give Galadriel the benefit of the doubt after some of the bad faith criticisms of her, and she hasn't bothered me too much so far, but damn was she ever annoying this week.

The Durin/Elrond stuff just felt like a re-run of episode two with Elrond having to prove he can be trusted again.

The orc stuff was the best part but it was silly how they let Arondir go with all his weapons.

 

[fireproof78]

Can't they just be jealous of elven immortality and men's exclusion from Valinor like in the books? I'v

Is it in the appendices?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Is it in the appendices?

Yes, that's in Appendix A, section I, part i. Sauron also loses his physical form in the Fall of Númenor. His spirit returns to Mordor but he is no longer able to assume fair form.

Also, surely Isildur should know he isn't allowed to just turn up in Valinor, defying the Ban of the Valar, even if his intentions are good.

The Númenorians refer to the Valar as gods, which I suppose is kind of true, but they were well aware that the Valar were just aspects created by Eru from his own mind. I assume the show uses the term "gods" and "Valar" interchangeably to equate them in the audience's mind but even the Númenoreans believed in a single supreme deity.

Can't they just be jealous of elven immortality and men's exclusion from Valinor like in the books?

There is an element of that as they referred to the fact that Elves are immortal, but Galadriel is the only Elf on Númenor and she's eager to be gone and has no skills other than her Elf Fu. It hardly seems like a pressing concern that the masses would have.

I've tried to give Galadriel the benefit of the doubt after some of the bad faith criticisms of her, and she hasn't bothered me too much so far, but damn was she ever annoying this week.

She's annoyed me from the start and this week was no exception. Halbrand is much better at knowing how to manipulate people. But he's still a nasty, twisted piece of work.

The Durin/Elrond stuff just felt like a re-run of episode two with Elrond having to prove he can be trusted again.

Pretty much but the preview for the next episode suggests that Elrond breaks his oath to Durin somehow.

The orc stuff was the best part but it was silly how they let Arondir go with all his weapons.

I assume they let him have his sword back and he picked up his bow and quiver from where he had stashed it. He didn't have those on him when he was captured. It was a bit odd though.

It seems Adar is a corrupted Elf. I suspect he's one of two Elves from the First Age but the show likely does not have rights to use the characters Eöl or his son Maeglin. He's not Sauron even though his ambition is to be a god. Sauron was originally a powerful Maia, a servant of the Valar, so a lesser angelic being.

 

[saddestmoon]

Whoa! Just watched episode 4, and seeing

Spoiler

Narsil in the Plalantir tower, along with the other potential ‘heirlooms’ that were present (Tuor’s shield, axe - and the helm of Dor-Lomin, the ‘Dragon-helm’) was incredibly epic!

I personally don’t believe these were added simply without implication or ‘window-dressing’ the scene: that was indeed Narsil - and it looked stunning!

TBH, I don’t mind any of the liberties that have been taken by Amazon, thus far - and am actually enjoying not knowing exactly what’s coming in every scene.

The majority of what I’ve seen excites me, and has been extremely done well, and I watch with bated breath!

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Whoa! Just watched episode 4, and seeing

Spoiler

Narsil in the Plalantir tower, along with the other potential ‘heirlooms’ that were present (Tuor’s shield, axe - and the helm of Dor-Lomin, the ‘Dragon-helm’) was incredibly epic!

I personally don’t believe these were added simply without implication or ‘window-dressing’ the scene: that was indeed Narsil - and it looked stunning!

TBH, I don’t mind any of the liberties that have been taken by Amazon, thus far - and am actually enjoying not knowing exactly what’s coming in every scene.

The majority of what I’ve seen excites me, and has been extremely done well, and I watch with bated breath!

I wonder when Elendil of Andúnië is gifted Narsil. Obviously, the sword escapes the Fall of Númenor. Perhaps Míriel takes it with her to Middle-earth and rewards Elendil with it.