What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[at Quark's]

With those phasers and warp capable (torpedoes) there's no reason why ships fighting each other couldn't be tens of thousands of km apart. In that case, plain windows (without enhancement features) won't do you much good.

But I agree, that's not what Star Trek seems to show.

 

[Mytran]

You're telling me you think that a cadet on look out doing, using binoculars or the 23rd century equivalent, could not have seen the Reliant coming right at them?

Technology makes us lazy sometimes. SMH.

Something like that would definitely have been worth a try! There already seems to be plenty of windows on the Enterprise which could have been used for this function, if anyone on the crew had actually thought of it.

I've addressed this previously. Once the shields are down the hull is pretty sure done for. I don't see this as a more egregious weak spot than having windows any where else around the hull.

I wasn't thinking of vulnerability against enemy weapon fire (the devastating effects of which we've seen many times against unshielded ships) but structural weakness in general, plus space radiation being able to penetrate the hull more easily (the shields aren't up 24/7), random space junk or asteroids colliding with the glass and cracking it (something seen in modern Trek) not to mention an easy way to spy into the control centre.

Which is what I am saying with the viewscreen. I'm asking to add one little function and apparently that's too much?

So you're saying there should be a hatch behind the viewscreen window which stays closed most of the time but in emergency situations can be opened to allow traditional window functionality? I agree that that would cover most situations, whilst maximising safety at the same time.
If you already said this upthread then I apologise for missing it, I thought you were advocating for a large permanently open transparent section on the Bridge instead.

 

[Vale]

Justice is that unusual instance where Picard wanted a "real" view of the Edo god (because apparently Geordi's VISOR has better sensors than the flagship of the Federation). While a window on the Bridge would have saved Geordi a 30 second turbolift ride to the nearest lounge, I'm not convinced it's worth having a permanent weak spot in the wall of their control room.

The Enterprise-D bridge DOES have a window though, it's just an oculus in the ceiling – so completely aesthetic and of no practical use (unless your ship crash-lands on a planet surface and you need a source of conveniently dramatic illumination).

 

[Vale]

I wasn't thinking of vulnerability against enemy weapon fire (the devastating effects of which we've seen many times against unshielded ships) but structural weakness in general, plus space radiation being able to penetrate the hull more easily (the shields aren't up 24/7), random space junk or asteroids colliding with the glass and cracking it (something seen in modern Trek) not to mention an easy way to spy into the control centre.

The windows are not made of glass though. We might assume by the 24th century that whatever material their windows are made from is significantly stronger than anything we have today. The windows should be no more vulnerable than the rest of the hull. If radiation and micro-impacts really were a concern then they'd hardly have all the crew quarters fitted with gigantic floor-to-ceiling windows.

 

[Mytran]

The windows are not made of glass though. We might assume by the 24th century that whatever material their windows are made from is significantly stronger than anything we have today. The windows should be no more vulnerable than the rest of the hull.

That's what is claimed in-universe, but in practise the transparent material looks, acts and breaks like glass:

I seem to recall an episode of modern Trek where the Bridge viewscreen window sustained cracks due to collision damage, but the life of me I cannot find any images.
At the very least the material which the windows are made from is significantly thinner and the walls which surround it.

If radiation and micro-impacts really were a concern then they'd hardly have all the crew quarters fitted with gigantic floor-to-ceiling windows.

Crew quarters have significantly smaller windows though and in any case do have shutters.

 

[Vger23]

How did the controversial opinions thread turn into the Great Window Debate of 2022?

 

[cooleddie74]

TheTrekBBS. That's how.

 

[fireproof78]

I wasn't thinking of vulnerability against enemy weapon fire (the devastating effects of which we've seen many times against unshielded ships) but structural weakness in general, plus space radiation being able to penetrate the hull more easily (the shields aren't up 24/7), random space junk or asteroids colliding with the glass and cracking it (something seen in modern Trek) not to mention an easy way to spy into the control centre.

Why do ships have windows at all then?

Sensors by the enemy should be able to detect better than any window. Windows can be filtered for one way viewing, shields of some kind should be operating at all times to protect against radiation because background radiation is terrible, and the navigation deflector is designed to push debris out of the way.

So you're saying there should be a hatch behind the viewscreen window which stays closed most of the time but in emergency situations can be opened to allow traditional window functionality? I agree that that would cover most situations, whilst maximising safety at the same time.
If you already said this upthread then I apologise for missing it, I thought you were advocating for a large permanently open transparent section on the Bridge instead.

I'm advocating for adaptability in all situations. So having a function of a window, with all the protections necessary in day to day, while allowing for emergency use in the moment. I want choice not just a screen that may fail.

 

[1001001]

How did the controversial opinions thread turn into the Great Window Debate of 2022?

Nerds arguing about make-believe.

It's our raison d'etre.

 

[cooleddie74]

"Raison d'etre" was a horrible episode of Trek. Discuss.

 

[GNDN18]

 

[cooleddie74]

I'd watch the Hell out of that episode. And the sequel, "Bete Noire."

 

[Mytran]

Why do ships have windows at all then?

Sensors by the enemy should be able to detect better than any window. Windows can be filtered for one way viewing, shields of some kind should be operating at all times to protect against radiation because background radiation is terrible, and the navigation deflector is designed to push debris out of the way.

I'm advocating for adaptability in all situations. So having a function of a window, with all the protections necessary in day to day, while allowing for emergency use in the moment. I want choice not just a screen that may fail.

Honestly, I think Star Trek ships have too many windows and would prefer to a reduced number along with them being covered up when not in use. It seems we are both seem advocating for something similar with the bridge window as well...I'd just prefer to have several viewports which could be accessed in an emergency situation, since you can't always guarantee that the threat will be right in front of the ship.

 

[Vger23]

Nerds arguing about make-believe.

It's our raison d'etre.

True enough. I forget who I am at heart sometimes.

Now if you will excuse me, I will turn my nose up at this “windows Vs view screens” argument because I have to go make a point about beam weapons being superior to pulse weapons. I don’t have time for this foolishness.

 

[GNDN18]

 

[fireproof78]

Honestly, I think Star Trek ships have too many windows and would prefer to a reduced number along with them being covered up when not in use. It seems we are both seem advocating for something similar with the bridge window as well...I'd just prefer to have several viewports which could be accessed in an emergency situation, since you can't always guarantee that the threat will be right in front of the ship.

To me, and this is purely my own preference in terms of starship design and available tech but I feel like windows would be a huge benefit to crew morale.

 

[Orphalesion]

To me, and this is purely my own preference in terms of starship design and available tech but I feel like windows would be a huge benefit to crew morale.

See I don't know whether the windows would really benefit crew morale that much. First of all, the vast majority of the time all you see outside those windows is the eternal darkness of space (and stars)
And then they also lack the two features that make real windows vital/desirable: 1) no natural light coming through (most of the time) 2)no source of fresh air.
At that point you might as well have a holographic window.

 

[fireproof78]

See I don't know whether the windows would really benefit crew morale that much. First of all, the vast majority of the time all you see outside those windows is the eternal darkness of space (and stars)
And then they also lack the two features that make real windows vital/desirable: 1) no natural light coming through (most of the time) 2)no source of fresh air.
At that point you might as well have a holographic window.

Like I said, this is my view. I find windows, even in darkness, very opening and satisfying. I like stars and appreciate a window view on a plane for the same reason. No fresh air, but a good view. I know it's quite irrational but I've had this view for nigh 20 years.

 

[Orphalesion]

Like I said, this is my view. I find windows, even in darkness, very opening and satisfying. I like stars and appreciate a window view on a plane for the same reason. No fresh air, but a good view. I know it's quite irrational but I've had this view for nigh 20 years.

Preference is preference there is no need to justify it or call it rational/irrational. :-)
And I love the stars, but the view from the windows of the Enterprise looks like it might get unsettling/depressing, or at the very least boring after a while to me.

It would make me feel like it's permanently night.

 

[fireproof78]

Preference is preference there is no need to justify it or call it rational/irrational. :-)
And I love the stars, but the view from the windows of the Enterprise looks like it might get unsettling/depressing, or at the very least boring after a while to me.

It would make me feel like it's permanently night.

If I'm bored on a starship I probably am in the wrong profession.