Who was Anatar in the trailers?
Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series
- Thread starter Cyrus
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Supposedly the emo-looking Elf on a hill taking part in some ritual.
Who Is Annatar in 'Lord of the Rings'?| The Mary Sue
Right...I doubt it.
As do I. I think there is deliberate misdirection going on.
Very minor point, but adar is "father" in Sindarin. The equivalent word in Quenya would be atar. The only reason I even bring it up is because the characters are speaking Quenya way more than they should be. Sindarin is the lingua franca of Middle-earth at this point, whereas Quenya is closer to Latin in that it's used in a more formal, scholarly manner. I can kind of understand Elendil (who was excellent, by the way) and the other Faithful speaking Quenya, with Gondor and Arnor gradually transitioning to Sindarin through the Third Age to mirror their decline in stature, but a Silvan Elf like Arondir should be using Sindarin, and he hasn't been.
I also would have liked to have seen Pharazôn and other King's Men referring to Númenor as Anadûnê, the Adûnaic form of its name, but maybe that was a rights issue because that name (and, I think, just about everything else we know of Adûnaic) only appears in The Silmarillion and The History of Middle-earth.
You are right that it could be Sindarin, but I'm not sure about that exact translation. I hadn't considered a Sidnarin meaning to his name, because he appears to be from among the Southlanders that are descended from those humans that sided with Morgoth (though I think the show is unclear whether they are really meant to be descended from those humans that actively sided with Morgoth during the First Age, or simply are among those that fell under his shadow) Fromw hat I remember a lot of the humans living in Middle Earth itself in the Second Age seemed to have been wary of the Elves and of the Numenorians both, so why would they name their children in Sindarin? The two other Southlanders in the show do have names that are not Sindarin and kinda fit the Rohirrim naming convention (Bronwyn and Theo)
Now I'm kinda wondering who/what he actually is.
Among the Elves and their allies, yes, but among those humans that exist outside of that order?
Plus I'm not talking about Westron, but Rohirric, which is descended not from Adunaic, but from the (related) languages of the people of Rhovanion.
....but then who is that guy? He really ticked all the boxes. The best I can figure now is that he might be Saruman, if the old guy with the Hobbits is Gandalf.
And speaking of the Hobbits...here I'm really not impressed with the names. They manage to make their culture and aesthetic look in such a way that it really makes them seem like more primitive Hobbits...but then we have names that are straight out of the Shire at the end of the Third Age, including a name which can't possibly exist during that age; I suppose Brandyfoot could still have something to do with some sort of border region, but Elanor was a name that was created by Sam for his daughter, named after the golden flowers of Lorien.
Thanks for correcting me. I agree with your points there about Quenya. If only they'd had Tom Shippey around to correct them.
I think such simplification is fine to avoid confusing the audience with too many names for the same thing. After all, Galadriel's name is not Galadriel if she hasn't yet met Celeborn.
I think the showrunners are about as knowledgeable about Tolkien lore as I am (that is, superficially and not deeply) and not as steeped in it as you, @Skywalker, and Tom Shippey. No wonder other aficionados are up in arms. I used to know more but it's decayed over several decades. I think the showrunners are applying Tolkien "sprinkles" that sound convincing to normies.
I completely agree. I would have liked it a lot better if the Harfeet had simple, primitive mononyms, with the fancier names and surnames reserved for when they reach the Shire and become more civilized. Nori, Sadoc, Largo, Poppy, etc., are all good and perfectly fine names. But they should have stopped there.
Well, of course, the names that we're used to are just Tolkien's translations of the ones in the fictitious Red Book of Westmarch. For example, Frodo’s "real" name was Maura Labingi and Sam’s was Banazîr Galbasi. I believe this information comes from the twelfth volume of The History of Middle-earth, The Peoples of Middle-earth, which I don't have.
I'm honored that you say so, but I am not as steeped in it as it might seem. My big Tolkien phase was back when I was about 11-16 years old and truth be told, I know mostly about the Elves (and yeah, there I know some pretty obscure stuff, and wrote fanfiction in my time and had whole armies of original characters, haha)
There's like a metric ton of lore about Humans and Dwarves I have only vague knowledge or no clue at all about, but the show makes me look at the wikis and my old books again, so it might seem I know more than I actually do.
And you made a really good point about Halbrand possibly being Sindarin because now I'm wondering what one of the humans who are descended from those that sided with Morgoth was doing on a ship in the Western Sea that close to Aman. I wonder what his deal is and whether he really is who/what he claims he is.
Part of that is in the appendixes to the Lord of the Ring (which are often sold seperately), iirc, but there's also stuff about that in the History of Middle-Earth, yes.
But even so Elanor as a Hobbit name is impossible at that point in their history.
They could have actually been creative and given them names that sound more like the "real names" of the Hobbits. That would have been cool.
Quick n Dirty Summary regarding Joseph Mawles’ character of Adar (feel free to correct me on my impression / recall):
Very early on during initial casting announcements, Mawle was announced as being cast in the show, playing a character called ‘Oren’ (thought to be code name’
Following that announcement, Mawle more or less disappeared off casting discussions online (not entirely, but wasn’t mentioned as often or in great detail as other cast members).
Character posters go online, showing a gnarly heavy-armoured black gauntlet Ed hand holding a Nazgul-esque sword hilt. Rumoured to be Sauron himself, or some other ‘big-bad’ - but no further confirmation of this specific character.
Mawle then reappears in that Prime ‘Witcher’ style sword holding side-profile pic - but no further mention or context given.
Now the character of Adar is revealed, and likely to be played by Mawle (if not already confirmed)
Note: NZ Actor Bridie Sissions plays the short-cropped blonde haired mysterious character in the white hooded cloak, with the ornate staff - however she has been confirmed to be not playing Sauron - and is probably another ‘big-Bad’ Morgoth cultist?
Very early on during initial casting announcements, Mawle was announced as being cast in the show, playing a character called ‘Oren’ (thought to be code name’
Following that announcement, Mawle more or less disappeared off casting discussions online (not entirely, but wasn’t mentioned as often or in great detail as other cast members).
Character posters go online, showing a gnarly heavy-armoured black gauntlet Ed hand holding a Nazgul-esque sword hilt. Rumoured to be Sauron himself, or some other ‘big-bad’ - but no further confirmation of this specific character.
Mawle then reappears in that Prime ‘Witcher’ style sword holding side-profile pic - but no further mention or context given.
Now the character of Adar is revealed, and likely to be played by Mawle (if not already confirmed)
Note: NZ Actor Bridie Sissions plays the short-cropped blonde haired mysterious character in the white hooded cloak, with the ornate staff - however she has been confirmed to be not playing Sauron - and is probably another ‘big-Bad’ Morgoth cultist?
This brings up something else...wouldn't the Ring Wraiths appear in this show as well...and, I'm not an expert on the lore here, wasn't at least their leader originally a Numenorian?
Well, I am embarrassed for misgendering her, I honestly thought she was meant to be a male character.(though in my defence I hardly ever look up cast lists)
Could she might end up being a Ring Wraith?
The Witch-king of Angmar's identity is uncertain, but he's thought to have been a lord of Númenor, I believe.
I suspect Bridie Sissions (the emo Elf) might be playing a priestess - or priest - of the Morgoth cult on Númenor. IIRC Ar-Pharazôn had a giant statue of Morgoth erected and human sacrifices were performed before it. The cult's symbol shown in the trailer looked somewhat like a waxing crescent Moon, but I haven't examined it closely.
I suspect Bridie Sissions (the emo Elf) might be playing a priestess - or priest - of the Morgoth cult on Númenor. IIRC Ar-Pharazôn had a giant statue of Morgoth erected and human sacrifices were performed before it. The cult's symbol shown in the trailer looked somewhat like a waxing crescent Moon, but I haven't examined it closely.
Hmmm well irrc Sauron was the high priest of Morgoth's cult in Numenor but...
What if they compress the timeline so much that Sauron's war against the Elves and the corruption of Numenor happen at the same rime?
Then Birdie Sission's character could act like Sauron's "agent" on Numenor, corrupting the place in his name?
In that case she could even be a minor Maia in his service. Because she looks a bit too otherworldly to just be a human to me.
The only problem I have with Joseph Mawles as 2nd Age Sauron is that I can't see him be Anatar and beguiling the Elves of Eregion in that form. I would have expected someone like Birdi Sission instead for that.
What if they compress the timeline so much that Sauron's war against the Elves and the corruption of Numenor happen at the same rime?
Then Birdie Sission's character could act like Sauron's "agent" on Numenor, corrupting the place in his name?
In that case she could even be a minor Maia in his service. Because she looks a bit too otherworldly to just be a human to me.
The only problem I have with Joseph Mawles as 2nd Age Sauron is that I can't see him be Anatar and beguiling the Elves of Eregion in that form. I would have expected someone like Birdi Sission instead for that.
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They do seem to be compressing what was 1,800 years into a much shorter time. Sauron's going to have problems getting around so quickly to work his mischief.
Yeah, I think they've found ancient horse fossils in the Americas, so theory is they evolved in here and crossed over into Europe &/or Asia back when they were all connected. The ones in the Americas eventually died out, but the ones in Europe/Asia survived, and were eventually reintrouced when the Europeans came here.
If they did come from Valinor, and were given to the Numenoreans, that could explain why Galadriel was so shocked by horses being in Numenor, she didn't expect them to be anywhere but Valinor.
My other thought was that they had been in Middle Earth earlier, but something happened that wiped them out, and since Numenor was an island, the ones there survived. Once the Numenoreans come to Middle Earth, they bring their horses with them, and that's how they got reintroduced, and why they're everywhere in LOTR, but not in this.
I'm assuming you're not saying you think the idea of an orc raping an elf is cool? Because that's what I was talking about in the part you quoted.
I'm just not a big fan of even implied rape in something like this. Not that I'm totally against rape stories in media, it's just not the kind of thing I like to see thrown around casually. If it's going to be part of a story, it should be handled very carefully.
In this story yes. Cool stuff. Having the scene in the show wouldn't be mind you, but it could be alluded to. But of course Tolkien wrote about Dark Elves, so maybe the consummation could have been mutual.
But that said, how do you feel about the genocidal ways of the Elves. Slaughtering orcs upon sight or orcs killing elves upon sight. (Except when they enslave them.) A far worse crime than rape.
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Could be, 3 of the nine rings given to men were from the island nation. And their fortress was set up in front of Mordor during the 2nd age iirc.
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How did I miss that.
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