F-117 Stealth Fighter/Bomber going into mothballs

[Johnny Rico]

Just saw this on FOX News, but I've heard rumors of it before, but apparently the Air Force is going to send the arrowhead shaped ghost of the sky F-117 stealthfighter into mothball retirement soon. It's replacement is the F-22 Raptor Which of course incorporates, both stealth and bombing capacity along with air-superiority capability....something the F-117 lacked.

However, they will bring the F-117 out of retirement if necessary.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

About time IMO. The secret to defeating its stealth capability quickly ended the plane's viability once Serbian forces figured it out and used it to shoot one down in 1993. This effectively ended the effectiveness of the plane against anyone with radar, so the otherwise cool looking plane was a big lemon except to forces without advanced radar, and showing up in Michael Bay movies... :P

The USAF still has the F/A-22, F-35, and B-2 around with superior technology and lower maintenance, that can do the job far better than a 117 can do today. It was a cool plane, but outdated even by the time of the first Iraq war, and has earned its museum space. I remember seeing one at an airshow when it was still a big deal, and it was surrounded by armed guards and a perimeter fence. Someone there told me that under usual conditions, the radar cross section of the plane was about the size of his flight helmet - because that's all you could see through the windows.

Mark

 

[ex nihilo]

The retirement of the F-117 was announced during mid-year budget reviews last year. It’s not surprising considering that much of the airplane was based on near obsolete hardware and technology that was sitting about when it went into production. Much of this did not matter since its basic design was so revolutionary and ahead of its time that these other shortcomings were made up in spades.

The F-22 and JSF represent the true culmination of the Have Blue program; a multirole air superiority platform integrating the pathfinder technologies (developed and proven by the F-117) of low radar cross section and other “stealth” technologies.

Godspeed, Nighthawk . . .

 

[JustAFriend]

It's replacement is the F-22 Raptor Which of course incorporates, both stealth and bombing capacity along with air-superiority capability....something the F-117 lacked.

The F22 can also go supersonic --- something the 117 could not do.

The F22 can cruise at supersonic speeds without the need of using an afterburner, too....

 

[Outpost4]

Those oldsters around here will remember the USAF's Century program with the F100, F101, F104, F105 and F106 fighters. With this series, the US defense industry and the Air Force learned how to make jet fighters and fighter/bombers. With the exception of the F104, which was in production for years, they all came and went rather quickly. It was a typical learning curve.

The F117 compares most closely to the B-47. It had a service life of 15 years and was a very successful plane, with SAC deploying over 2,000 of them. It was also a learning experiment as Boeing and SAC learned about flying and maintaining large, swept wing bombers. Its replacement, the B-52 is still in service and is expected to be at least for another 25 years. It will have at least a 75 year service life. I wouldn't be surprised if the F22 and F35 had multi-decade service lives, too. They took the lessons learned from the F15, F16 and F117 and built upon them.

Look at a F22 straight on. To a large extent, it looks like a F117 upside down.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Actually, the F-105 Thunderchief debuted in 1958 and stuck around until the end of the Vietnam War, though admittedly it was pretty outclassed by that point (someone once said it was as aerodynamic as a set of car keys) and replaced in its attack function by the F-4...

Mark

 

[Outpost4]

Good point. It was the USAF's designated fighter/bomber for Viet Nam even though it was never designed for conventional munitions bombing missions. The US lost half its F105 fleet and too many good pilots when the Thud was deployed in numbers in Viet Nam. It also stayed in service in its Wild Weasel roll into the '70s.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

'80s.

Mark

 

[LastGL]

Good point. It was the USAF's designated fighter/bomber for Viet Nam even though it was never designed for conventional munitions bombing missions. The US lost half its F105 fleet and too many good pilots when the Thud was deployed in numbers in Viet Nam. It also stayed in service in its Wild Weasel roll into the '70s.

Actually 2/3 of the total production run of the F-105 was lost during it's deployments to Vietnam. And the last ones were retired from service in the early or mid '80's.

 

[Rat Boy]

Good point. It was the USAF's designated fighter/bomber for Viet Nam even though it was never designed for conventional munitions bombing missions. The US lost half its F105 fleet and too many good pilots when the Thud was deployed in numbers in Viet Nam. It also stayed in service in its Wild Weasel roll into the '70s.

The other problem was that when Tactical Air Command needed pilots, they poached them from SAC, gave them little training, and sent them to 'Nam where they became cannon fodder.

 

[Outpost4]

And here I thought I was making a unique and insightful observation, comparing the service life and pivotal nature of the F117 to the B-47. Instead I was starting a conversation on the F105. Silly me!

 

[Garrovick]

About time IMO. The secret to defeating its stealth capability quickly ended the plane's viability once Serbian forces figured it out and used it to shoot one down in 1993. This effectively ended the effectiveness of the plane against anyone with radar, so the otherwise cool looking plane was a big lemon except to forces without advanced radar, and showing up in Michael Bay movies... :PMark

It was a little more complcated than that...

The Serbs had the flight plan and used the three radar shootdown concept.

It proved the basic concept that the F-117 could lead bombers into Russia and tie up defense radars would work as advertised.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Granted, it wasn't just some Serbian guy tuning his radar frequency dial to "low". Still, given a combat situation in a limited theater, the F-117's primary role as an attack aircraft was limited at best, and even more so once the cat was out about how to detect one.

I have no beef with the plane itself, save for the political decision to call it a stealth FIGHTER. The 117 never had any air to air capability unless you swap out its two bombs for a pair of missiles (which was never done), the plane wasn't supersonic (and didn't have afterburners), and its maneuverability was particularly low for something with an "F" in its designation. It just looks damn cool.

Mark <--- Why isn't there a decent 1:72 diecast Raptor, dammit!

 

[The Habs Fan]

When the USAF retire planes, they should keep them on the air show circuit. It looks like the F-117 is going to join the SR-71 as planes that never fly.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

You'll never see a Nighthawk on the airshow circuit. The Air Force don't showcase has-been planes, and in this case they won't sell them to private interests. In this case, you'll see a few more 117s at museums as nonflight exhibits, and that's about it. The prototypes already exist as such.

Mark

 

[The Habs Fan]

You'll never see a Nighthawk on the airshow circuit. The Air Force don't showcase has-been planes, and in this case they won't sell them to private interests. In this case, you'll see a few more 117s at museums as nonflight exhibits, and that's about it. The prototypes already exist as such.

Mark

Yeah and that's what makes me disappointed to see them retire planes. They should keep one or two flying for air shows. Instead they'll forever be on the ground in museums.

 

[Johnny Rico]

Does anybody remember the first time these were used in combat? Was it Op. Desert Storm or was it during Op. Just Cause in Panama? I can't remember.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

Good point. It was the USAF's designated fighter/bomber for Viet Nam even though it was never designed for conventional munitions bombing missions. The US lost half its F105 fleet and too many good pilots when the Thud was deployed in numbers in Viet Nam. It also stayed in service in its Wild Weasel roll into the '70s.

Actually 2/3 of the total production run of the F-105 was lost during it's deployments to Vietnam. And the last ones were retired from service in the early or mid '80's.

Any comparable modern aircraft losses? The Middle East has lost a lot of Soviet made aircraft tangling with the Israelis I'm sure, but then a lot of them were made in the first place too.

 

[Outpost4]

Johnny, it was Panama, with limited results, if I remember correctly.

This aircraft is so labor and maintainance intensive, it wouldn't be worth keeping a couple flying for any reason. It is a better museum piece.

Here is an excellent article on the life and and retirement of the F117 from the Smithsonian's Air & Space Magazine a few months ago.

 

[Garrovick]

Johnny, it was Panama, with limited results, if I remember correctly.
quote]


It dropped two bombs in an open field next to the "Government Headquarters"

It was more of a major wake up call, as in "Hello, Wake Up, We're here to see you"

Think of it as a "Live Fire" exersise.