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The Undiscovered Country - Theatrical Cut Blu-ray vs Director's Cut iTunes

There is no official version with the flashes but no faces. There's theatrical, no faces. Home video, no faces, director's edition, faces with gongs.
Actually, there is. The iTunes (Or Apple TV) version of the Director's Cut that is accessed through the special features contains the faces but no gongs. In fact, the original theatrical audio plays over the flashes and faces so when you see Admiral Cartwright's face, you hear Chekov say "Of Starfleet?"
 
Huh, weird. I stand corrected!

Reminds me of the Donner cut of Superman II, where somehow the iTunes version contained an extra scene that Donner had decided he didn't want in it.
 
The director's cut on Vudu also does not have the gong sound. But just to prove that there are as many opinions as there are versions I actually like to see the faces without the gong. Anyway I'm glad the director's cut made it to 4K I only wish it had been included on the Blu-ray disc as well. And I'm glad that both versions made it to a proper restoration.
 
Thankfully I usually watch the theatrical cut these days anyway, but it is a bummer them dropping it from Blu-ray. Maybe that and the SLV of TMP will make it to Blu-ray some day. After the DS9 remaster. ;)
 
I hope the Director's Cut of VI will appear as it's own movie on iTunes rather than being accessed as a bonus feature. I wouldn't mind paying for it again (like I did with TWOK: Director's Cut) if it means we get it in 4K on Apple TV.
 
Goodness, those comments hurt my head. No matter what common sense anyone tries to impart, "BUT It's BluRRy!" is the reply.

Even Terry Matalas is in there expressing a questionable opinion. (I'm nice-ifying my comment here.)
 
“I thought they were supposed to be sharp???!?!?”

People seem to confuse picture quality with sharpness. I remember complaints about SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE being “blurry” on blu-ray, when the film was intentionally given a diffusion on the lenses.
 
The Directors Cut on the extras on iTunes has the gongs. It's also in 4k. My HD theatrical version hasn't upgraded to 4k like the others did though which is weird.
 
I haven't assembled it yet, but interestingly, the app I use to rip discs for my home media server pulls of each contiguous segment of seamlessly branching discs on 4K blu rays, in addition to the full-length movies in whatever versions are available, so I can theoretically mix and match the alternate cuts with no loss of quality and make a 4K version of the VHS cut with all the deleted scenes but no cutaways during the mind-meld sequence (I wouldn't mind keeping the close-ups of Kirk and McCoy, but since it's all the same scene, my options are limited). If this works, that means I can also fix a mastering error on the Independence Day director's cut where an establishing shot is repeated a few seconds before where it belongs (luckily, in a scene with no other changes, it's just a completely unnecessary branch that hasn't been fixed in three generations of disc releases). And, if I wanted to, I could get wacky and have, say, every on-screen planet name caption in Rogue One appear in a different language or something.

On that note, as I understand it, Nick Meyer and Denny Martin Flynn recorded a commentary for the TUC DE DVD, and then they both recorded a different commentary for the blu-ray, since that used the theatrical cut. The original DE commentary isn't on the 4K disc, just the theatrical commentary. My SE DVD was lost in a move, so I can't check myself, but can anyone tell me if they're actually two different commentaries, or was the theatrical cut commentary edited down from the director's cut version?
 
The Directors Cut on the extras on iTunes has the gongs. It's also in 4k. My HD theatrical version hasn't upgraded to 4k like the others did though which is weird.
The theatrical was 4K and Dolby Vision on September 6 but for some reason it's reverted back to HD. I think at some point it'll go back to Dolby Vision.
 
Yeah it’s really odd that it upgraded to 4K but then shortly after downgraded to HD.

I assume it’ll go back to 4K Dolby Vision soon, no idea when.
 
Some screencap comparisons. But what’s making me cringe are comments by people who think the 2009 blu-ray looks better because it “looks sharper”. :wtf:

https://twitter.com/trekcore/status/1565137763564920837?s=21&t=QNxoJdfKsb1HTLbB45WN8A

I remember reviews of the BR release for VI. Noise removal so bad that even smoke wisps were removed, along with facial pores and rendering everyone waxy. Way too contrasty as well, the top image was a mess. Even Spock's uniform looks more like wax; the bottom image revealing more finer detail.

And without the warm color cast, since Spock's collar should be white and not "snow as yellow as Fido's tinkle".

The 2022 edition is a HUGE improvement and that's even before noticing the improvements HDR brings in. Definitely long overdue and hugely appreciated, and the other issue is the quality and grade of film stock, as enough image processing can do all sorts of things that would scare Freddy Krueger enough for him to pee his pants from fear as well, but let's get to the next image as it's a good one:

I just peeked at Valeris - no Fido yellow, but the overly-contrasty image, with crushed blacks, are still very present. So is some light bloom, especially reflecting off the hairdo she's got. It's minute but noticeable. Her uniform also has more natural detail in the 4k edition, even considering when we're looking at the 4K image shrunken down to match the competing 1080P's size (which says a lot, most of which I've babbled on before, where you can tell true HD by taking a native 4K film scan and shrink it down to the native size of a competing format. The shrunken 4K image has more finer detail peeping out that does not exist in the lesser version.) And, yes, I can see the vertical striping in both images, the harsher contrasting and excessive DNR bring out the detail artificially. The 4K version still shows it all, but with more. The result looks like actual clothing, not bits and pieces of a Borg model kit painted red then glued onto Barbie. The contrast range is massively improved as well. Not just with the lesser bloom and crush, more proof of this is in her orange turtleneck; the shadow detail is more realistic in the 4K version - but the 2009 version makes her turtleneck look like a garish neon sign. The 4K version shows a turtleneck that, once again, passes as clothing and not something you'd see from a car model kit sprayed and poorly tacked on. And, go fig, the 2009 version really makes her look like a big ol' wax doll. Sheesh, the more I look the more it's just reality that the blu-ray edition is horrific... If it helps at all, now imagine Jason whipping out the baseball bat, taking off his mask, then him hitting himself in the head with it. And I forgot; there's no color cast. The gray computer banks behind her look like a proper neutral gray. Not the admittedly not-unattractive bluish-gray. Notice the switches on the computer; the 4K shows them looking natural and smooth. The 2009 blu-ray? No contest, the 2009 version sucks with the lack of detail and more blooming than in a flower shop. And the dramatic computer lights - there's almost no blooming from the lights in the 4K edition - it's very easy on the eyes to be sure... but in the 2009 edition they're blooming all over the place - like the result of Fido's friend Rover taking a leak on an electric fence. Yuck... why are people defending the blu-ray over the 4K?! It's not sharp at all. But wait, it gets better:

The Rand close-up has the least amount of perceivable improvements, most notablt a little better black-level/contrast detail. Naturally, I'm trying to hold back when mentioning her face - what with a reasonable amount of film grain - to help remind us that she is a human in the 4K image and not a store mannequin whose plasticky features were given a smoothing from a blowtorch. even the hair color is wrong in the 2009 image, but noting the neon green in the same image (but is far more refined in the 2022 release, THANK YOU HDR!!!). Also note that I'm trying incredibly hard to not make a mention to that Kim Cattrall movie, and managed to get past describing Valeris' image before namedropping the 1987 comedy flick that I need to see again one day. Hmmm, it looks like Grace used to be a frequent smoker, too. :(

Kirk's visage is the most difficult, but I still have a guess I'll get to in a moment... The grayscale/contrast easily reveals a huge win for 4K; the light sources reveal zero light bloom in 2022's image, with more genuine original detail shining through (sorry, no pun intended for once.) Now look at the 2009 image - the light bloom where white bleeds over the edges is dreadfully obvious. Now look at the monitors and the screens where there's now a dark gray glow from the monitor, with the outer frame in black in the 4K. The blu-ray shows black crush all over the place, surrounded by overly garish unicorn puke more 1985-style neon green and blue. Like the cafeteria from the 1985 sitcom Night Court. Sheesh, the 4k shows a yellow bar indicator where in the 2009 edition it's lime green. Good heavens folks, 4K is by far the easy win in this comparison of contrast detail and color accuracy!! But there's far more to dig into, which in another time and place would be really sad: The improved contrast also shows less more realistic dirt wiped off from Kirk's tunic. The 5 O'clock shadow is far more realistic in the 4K remaster, not looking like he's jumped out of a mud bath, having gotten two baby porcupines stretched out on his cheeks as a bonus as what's shown in the 2009 blu-ray. Never mind Kirk no longer looks like he's got second degree sunburn all over his face in the 4K remaster - how did they manage to get the blu-ray to make it look like everyone was having way too much fun at the beach at Bogota, a great place if you really dig the equator, without any sunscreen?! Dang! Even better, the overall layout for 4K is not looking like some kid's "connect the dots" book where they used a thick line market instead of a fine calligraphy pencil as the faux sharpness in the 2009 mush is driving me to Sha'Ka'Ree at Warp 42, I swear--- *GASP* *COUGH* *MELODRAMA* *CARROT JUICE!* Unholy walnuts, I just saw the clasps where Kirk's tunic closes up. As Sulu said, "My God - shields, shields!" Looks like truly ****y "AI upscaling" in the 2009 version with the phony sharpness trying to make lower resolution material look more than all that. THE SCENE WAS CLEARLY MEANT TO BE SOFT FOCUS, WHINE WHINE WHINE! There, I feel better now. Not really, also notice that the clasps are a mixture of gold and silver in the 4K proper remastering. The blu-ray only shows over-processed tin lumps with blooming from the light reflections. What are people griping about, the 4K image is a vast improvement.

Good grief, the 4K edition gave the movie the attention it deserved and I haven't watched it yet, seeing only these shrunken down comparison shots - and there's already tons more to appreciate in the 4K release over the blu-ray. The blu-ray just looks like someone put a bunch of candles into a room and set the temperature to 420 degrees then they returned in a couple hours. And I'm sure the candles had a certain smell to huff on as well...

That said, adding 5% to the sharpness control may have not been unwelcome... but noting what 4K brings to the table, the improvements vastly outweigh and outnumber any nitpicks and by a margin so huge, it makes "twelve parsecs" seem like walking distance by comparison. Then remembering articles and reviewers (not me, sadly) commenting on how the 2009 was crap at the time - and it still is - but the 4K only reminds, somewhat greatly, of how bad the 2009 release was. The 2009 version was an overprocessed waxy mess, It was never "sharper" in any legitimate way. Even Barbie would blush.

Disclaimer: I looked at these on a 2560x1440, 10-bit, 36" computer monitor designed for color-accurate graphic design and photo editing and not a piddly 6" smartphone where most people have the blue light filter enabled (which adds a yellowing color cast.) On a phone, some sharpness differences are much harder to spot because of the tighter pixel density, but the differences with contrast and bloom and crush are still as different as night and day (that pun also not intended.)


...not that I have any emotions invested in this movie or anything...
 
Trekcore makes a good comment about viewing at smaller size etc. When you magnify the comparison shots you can see how awfully waxy the 2009 version looked.

Kor

Yikes. I immediately went into "novella mode", posted, and only just looked back to read TrekCore's preemptive defense of all the inevitable comments about the perceived lack of sharpness... they have it quite correct.

Here's one blast from the past:

https://trekmovie.com/2009/05/21/review-star-trek-original-motion-picture-collection-on-blu-ray/

Zoiks, I didn't mis-remember the whines from the good ol' days - they're griping about the hokey noise reduction processes too. And, yes indeedy, one person was right on the ball with their response - this is a hoot:

RD said:
4. James Rye WROTE: “I dont like the blue steel look and will wait until better transfers.”

Then you are likely in for a LONG wait. I can’t say for sure, but it is incredibly unlikely that the color correction done for the Blu-Ray release, particularly for TWOK, is anything other than what was done for the original theatrical release as intended by the director. Unless the director changed his mind later for the director’s cuts, that’s the way it SHOULD be. In my experience NTSC DVD transfers tend to lean more toward the red spectrum if great care is not taken, or the original intent is otherwise unknown.

As for other DNR issues, that’s a fair argument for waiting.

Well, the wait is over. It was a long wait. I think enough time passed that some new diamonds have been formed underground, but it's been worth the wait.


Matt Wright
Author

May 21, 2009 12:12 pm
12 — Oh yes the movies need some processing, all movies before about 1995 need some clean up. My only beef is with the overuse of DNR.

All that said, and one commenter did remind, is that even the blu-ray, tacky as it was in some ways, brought back the proper aspect ratio for TUC - which was cropped for the DVD. Still, the excessive clean-up did turn everyone into Bratz dolls, missing only exaggerated eye sizes. And if you think I'm joking, do an image search for that doll line. I laughed when realizing it wasn't as much as a joke than I'd hoped... Now if only they had such dolls of Kirk and Spock...
 
Did the visual effects in space have to be pan-and-scanned for 1.33? My understanding is that ILM used to shoot their miniatures with VistaVision, which could easily open up for 2.00:1 framing.
I realize this is in response to a very old post, but they shot elements in VistaVision because the frame is so much bigger than 35mm that the grain build-up in compositing is not so noticeable when the final shots are printed to 35mm. You'd have to know what aspect ratio they printed the composites to to know how much latitude there was for other aspects.
 
I realize this is in response to a very old post, but they shot elements in VistaVision because the frame is so much bigger than 35mm that the grain build-up in compositing is not so noticeable when the final shots are printed to 35mm. You'd have to know what aspect ratio they printed the composites to to know how much latitude there was for other aspects.

I think my question was more on if the VHS pan and scan had more picture information than the widescreen version. I have that shot in the first page with the sunset on Khitomer showing more picture info at the bottom on Director’s cut than the theatrical blu-ray, but wondered if the VHS pan had even more info*. I’ve never watched this film in pan and scan before. Since VHS, I’ve always had this title in widescreen, whether the theatrical AR or the opened up 2.00:1. I was incredibly lucky to have parents that always looked out for widescreen VHS titles when I was a little boy. It’s part of why I was so ecstatic about DVD as a teenager because widescreen was being standardized (even though they still released full screen titles up to the 2000s).

*I’m doubting it.
 
Well, the wait is over. It was a long wait. I think enough time passed that some new diamonds have been formed underground, but it's been worth the wait.

To be completely fair, I only had to wait until 2016 for TWOK. I am super excited to watch TUC as it was meant to be. My all time favourite Trek.
 
I think my question was more on if the VHS pan and scan had more picture information than the widescreen version.
For the VFX shots, a little bit. I don't have access to a 4x3 ST6, but you can see slightly more vertical* info in the shots they used in VOY's Flashback than there is in any of the various widescreen versions of the film. ...not a lot, but some.

*While losing massive amounts of horizontal info.
 
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