Do Starfleet Captains Play God?

[BillJ]

Because no one of a captain's rank would be put in that kind of situation. He's the star of the show and it is TV. Impossible choices are what hooks viewers. You can't apply real world morality to a TV show.

It is much like the hokey nature of "Dear Doctor" and the plight of the Menk and Valakians. There is no way Archer would've been empowered to make that kind of decision. There was no reason for him to make that decision as there was no danger to the Enterprise from it and there was no immediate danger to either the Menk and Valakians. Archer would've, in the real world, called home and passed on the request of medical aid from the Valakians, then the Earth and Vulcan governments would've sent experts to assess the situation.

 

[Farscape One]

Sisko again is a Starfleet officer and if I remember rightly the citizens were on the Cardassian side of the border... I can argue he attack the Federation and it's citizens. He as much a terrorist as the Maquis. He was not in a fantasy world. He would have been put before a court marshal board, maybe guilty or not for high crimes...

Actually, the Maquis were no longer Federation citizens. Plus, as going by "Journey's End", people living in those colonies on the Cardassian side gave up their status as Federation citizens. So Sisko was attacking rogue people who were threatening to destabilize an entire region of space and gut a treaty between the Federation and Cardassia.

Never mind the fact the Maquis attacked and crippled TWO Starfleet ships and stole cargo from at least two other sources in the very same episode. In addition to all the stuff before "FOR THE UNIFORM".

(While I agree the treaty was probably a bad call because the Cardassians proved to be untrustworthy, it was still a treaty between two large powers that was made to keep a peace after a war was already fought.)

Put it this way... terrorists with no country backing them used biochemical weapons on a major U.S. city, say Chicago, and killed a lot of people. You know they are about to do the same to other cities, but have no idea which one is next. But you do know where their home base is. Do you hit their home base to prevent the deaths of millions more, or just let them attack?

Sisko made the right call, because if he didn't act and allowed the Maquis to keep doing what they did, he would have been guilty of those deaths through inaction.

 

[dupersuper]

It is much like the hokey nature of "Dear Doctor" and the plight of the Menk and Valakians. There is no way Archer would've been empowered to make that kind of decision. There was no reason for him to make that decision as there was no danger to the Enterprise from it and there was no immediate danger to either the Menk and Valakians. Archer would've, in the real world, called home and passed on the request of medical aid from the Valakians, then the Earth and Vulcan governments would've sent experts to assess the situation.

Hopefully experts better versed in evolution than Phlox...

 

[MAGolding]

Acoding to historical REcords, the computer game God beame very popular amoung starship crews around 2175. Amost every single crewmember and officer played the game like cazy. Starfleet Comand finally decided the game of God was interfering with shipbord efficiency and banned it in all of Starfleet in 2197, and after a struggle to enforce the order God was played for the last time by a Starfleet member in 2199.

So according to those dates no Starfleet captain in any series or movie made so far has ever played God. .

 

[Deks]

I think this should be the prime objective of Starfleet and the Federation send out starships to do good things. I understand leaving less advance societies alone. Unless, they are in some kind of life ending event. Starfleet can save them from...

The Prime Directive forbids them to interfere at all.
Period.
In other cases, SF Captains walk a fine line between what is acceptable and what isn't.

They don't generally 'play god'... situations that they find themselves in can sometimes result in decision making that seems close to 'playing god'... but for the most part, they usually intervene where another space faring civilization requested SF's aid on humanitarian grounds.

Kirk threatening to level a planet was not really 'playing god'... because he's not really the type who would do such a thing casually.
The situation in question involved escaped prisoners (whom if I'm not mistaken took hostages), so all he did was basically remind them what Kirk could effectively do.
It was for the most part a tactic on his part... little more than a bluff really to try and get the situation under control.
'Sabre rattling' is something SF is allowed to implement when it comes to diplomacy (a mild threat, but mainly as a diplomatic tactic which is not always used), and they probably do have contingencies for acting in situations which involve hostages and dangerous situations anywary.

Actual action that would result in a decimation of a whole planet is something left as an absolute last thing to do and if there are no other viable options on the table - but this has yet come to pass.
Because SF officers are taught to hold life in highest regard, SF captains tend to work meticulously to find a non-violent resolution.

In cases of pre-warp societies, those happened rarely, and virtually each time the crew was divided on what to do.

When you have a Trek starship with all its technology on board, and as SF captains are entrusted with those ships (and their technology), they do have to make tough decisions on a regular basis to not misuse it because the effects they can produce can go extremely far.

 

[Ferengi Prime 5]

Kirk threatening to level a planet was not really 'playing god'.

Kirk having the power to glaze a planet without restrictions is maddening. You know, one can not launch nukes unless two people turn their keys at the same time... I remember Scottie was on board about glazing the planet like they have done it once before. No one on the bridge battered an eye about the order... It seems SF captains level planets at will...

"A Taste of Armageddon" , Kirk completely upends these two planets society because Kirk believes war should be hard and dirty. He was playing God. His moral righteousness is better than those two societies moral compass... He has the power of a God to force his will upon these two societies with his righteous judgement, like God in the Bible did to Sodom and Gomorrah...

 

[Deks]

Kirk having the power to glaze a planet without restrictions is maddening. You know, one can not launch nukes unless two people turn their keys at the same time... I remember Scottie was on board about glazing the planet like they have done it once before. No one on the bridge battered an eye about the order... It seems SF captains level planets at will...

"A Taste of Armageddon" , Kirk completely upends these two planets society because Kirk believes war should be hard and dirty. He was playing God. His moral righteousness is better than those two societies moral compass... He has the power of a God to force his will upon these two societies with his righteous judgement, like God in the Bible did to Sodom and Gomorrah...

I would hardly call it 'without restrictions'.
SF doesn't just casually go around blowing up planets for one thing (in fact, they go through incredible lengths to save them for the most part, when its allowed - at least most of the time - some morally ambiguous situations however have been witnessed, but on the whole there were extremely few).

We also have no evidence that Starfleet EVER actually went to such lenghts in practice (blowing up a planet).
Sure, Kirk may have mentioned he could level the entire planet, but he never went through with it.

There is a difference between using a potential scare tactic to prevent a threat, and actually doing something on a practical level that approaches that magnitude.

SF captains can use potential scare tactics into avoiding a catastrophic outcome, and lethal force is on the very bottom of that list (in fact, except in times of war - and even then there will be exceptions - lethal force is AVOIDED like a plague).

But when have we actually seen them implement scare tactics in diplomacy/talks?
It's usually with species or individuals that are more militarilistically minded and responded very poorly to diplomacy... in fact, I don't think it occurred more than a handful of times.

What do we know though?
We know that UFP starships can incur massive damage on not just a planet, but also throuhout the galaxy (by using subspace technology)... so, from this perspective, you can say that SF is out there 'playing god' (ridiculous term btw since religion is utterly preposterous in general if you ask me) every time a decision is made to explore.

With ever advancing technology and science, species and their ships abilities increase in magnitude greatly... so the scope changes.
The only way people could possibly see a 'way out' of this conunndrum would be that SF does nothing at all and stops exploring completely.... but then, we wouldn't really have Star Trek, would we?

To say nothing of the other species who have established massive interstellar organisations spanning thousands of lightyears (they actually WENT through great lengths to destroy planets). Starfleet only mentioned they COULD do it (a handful of times no less) as a detterrant.

I wonder if you might be casting the blame on the wrong fictional characters.

 

[JesterFace]

The answer to the question whether Sisko did the right thing is easy to answer, WWPD, What Would Picard Do.

 

[Ferengi Prime 5]

To say nothing of the other species who have established massive interstellar organisations spanning thousands of lightyears (they actually WENT through great lengths to destroy planets). Starfleet only mentioned they COULD do it (a handful of times no less) as a detterrant.

I think Starfleet would be humane about destroying planets by using type of Neutron Bomb/Technology. Starfleet would leave behind the remnants of their societies as a warning to others...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb

A neutron bomb, officially defined as a type of enhanced radiation weapon (ERW), is a low-yield thermonuclear weapon designed to maximize lethal neutron radiation in the immediate vicinity of the blast while minimizing the physical power of the blast itself. The neutron release generated by a nuclear fusion reaction is intentionally allowed to escape the weapon, rather than being absorbed by its other components.[3] The neutron burst, which is used as the primary destructive action of the warhead, is able to penetrate enemy armor more effectively than a conventional warhead, thus making it more lethal as a tactical weapon.

 

[Deks]

I think Starfleet would be humane about destroying planets by using type of Neutron Bomb/Technology. We would leave behind the remnants of their societies as a warning to others...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb

A neutron bomb, officially defined as a type of enhanced radiation weapon (ERW), is a low-yield thermonuclear weapon designed to maximize lethal neutron radiation in the immediate vicinity of the blast while minimizing the physical power of the blast itself. The neutron release generated by a nuclear fusion reaction is intentionally allowed to escape the weapon, rather than being absorbed by its other components.[3] The neutron burst, which is used as the primary destructive action of the warhead, is able to penetrate enemy armor more effectively than a conventional warhead, thus making it more lethal as a tactical weapon.

SF can easily disperse biological agents and various gases in the atmosphere to destroy a population but leave the buildings intact.
Same thing applies to destroying all life on a planetary surface with phasers only... a slightly less controlled low level phaser strike modified to interact with the atmosphere in a chain reaction can destroy life across the entire planet in about 10 to 15 seconds without affecting actual buildings.

All of this is moot though, since SF draws clear lines when it comes to a destruction of life on a planet and does not engage or condone genocide.
Destroying life on a planet while leaving remnants of a society as a warning to others is a tactic that I can see used by the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, the Mirror Universe Terran Empire (and possibly the alternate timeline Confederation), the Dominion, the Breen, and a few other Delta Quadrant species.

While Starfleet would have the ability to do this, they use it mainly as a talking point to dissuade particularly aggressive and unyielding foes who left them with no other alternatives, but otherwise, they haven't actually implemented it in practice.

What exactly would be the point of the Federation doing such a thing?
It would only instill fear into other species. Heck, species that are part of the Federation would have likely left if SF was doing such things... and if it DID happen, it would only be a one time thing or might happen extremely infrequently, and each time a SF captain would likely undergo extensive debriefing to understand why and how this may have happened, and whether or not it was justified.
On a core level, those kind of actions go against what the UFP and SF stand for.

 

[at Quark's]

The answer to the question whether Sisko did the right thing is easy to answer, WWPD, What Would Picard Do.

Erm, bore the Maquis to death?

They mostly don't seem the type to appreciate longwinded, Shakespeare-quotations filled speeches.

Seriously though, I don't think Eddington would have managed to push JPL's buttons quite like he did with Sisko - it took the Borg assimilating him to achieve that. So I think JPL would have stopped short of poisoning the planet.

 

[JesterFace]

Seriously though, I don't think Eddington would have managed to push JPL's buttons quite like he did with Sisko - it took the Borg assimilating him to achieve that. So I think JPL would have stopped short of poisoning the planet.

Sorry, but I have to ask, JPL = Jean Picard Luc (?) or have I missed some initialism convention and it means something completely different?

 

[Tango]

Jet Propulsion Laboratory?

 

[at Quark's]

A curious blind spot- I meant 'JLP', yes, Jean-Luc Picard. I even had to reread my own message several times to see what was wrong.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Most of the time they do it to save lives, only in terrible episodes do they do it to rationalize letting people die.