I tend to look at it the other way around. Had he been around for more episodes, he probably would have received more nuance (or a look at some of his more intrinsic motivations) at some point, because I agree it wouldn't have worked for much more than a single episode.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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I tend to look at it the other way around. Had he been around for more episodes, he probably would have received more nuance (or a look at some of his more intrinsic motivations) at some point, because I agree it wouldn't have worked for much more than a single episode.
He had demonstrated he was capable of murder to get is way, petty murder of an employee at that. I would have shot the bastard too. No emotion, pure logical recourse to a problem. Rain was an unredeemable sociopath. If he would kill an unarmed person that was not threatening him, he would do it again. It was a good shot.
However, he was not in a position where he could perform such an act, and Data had a way of making sure he could not again be in such a position without killing him.
If nothing else, Data could have thrown the disrupter at the device in Fajo's belt that stopped Data from touching him, to render that device inoperable. Now, with no defense against Data, Data could rush him, and I'm sure that Data would know how to incapacitate someone in unarmed combat.
No assurance that hitting the thing would break it. A number of the collectables were projectile sized. I'm still calling it a good shot.
Indeed. Data had a choice to make, and he made it. Fajo had killed and would kill again with little concern to the consequences. Data had no promise of rescue and took a step he deemed appropriate.
They should have done revised credits for the first handful of DS9 S6 episodes when the station was under Dominion control. Keep the main actors names. But show Dominion ships docked at the station, do a darker theme, etc…
Something similar to what they did on Enterprise for the mirror episodes.
Something similar to what they did on Enterprise for the mirror episodes.
I guess they could always Remaster those episodes to have those ships docked at the station. Assuming the DS9 Bluray/streaming Remasters ever happen. 
I rank SNW middle of the pack from the new ST shows.
I'd say:
1) DSC
2) LDS
3) SNW
4) PIC
I'm happy many are enjoying it. I think it's pretty good, but far from the second coming some seem to be seeing.
I'd say:
1) DSC
2) LDS
3) SNW
4) PIC
I'm happy many are enjoying it. I think it's pretty good, but far from the second coming some seem to be seeing.
That would have looked brilliant mate. A shame that in those days it probably would have blown an episode's worth of VFX budget!
As was said by someone after you, if they do a remaster I'd love to see them do it
There is a fair amount of SNW praise that is primarily about making digs about Disco.
It's tedious the amount of times "real Trek" is said to be "finally back" or "greatly missed"
Just review the show on its own merits ffs
I thought SNW was wonderful, but also admittedly uneven. There were 2-3 episodes that were just "ok." I also found the focus on Spock/T'Pring to be rather odd. I liked it, but it was definitely an odd choice.
I do agree that, much like The Orvillle, SNW tends to get weaponized against other modern incarnations of Trek, and it does get tiresome. I see the same thing with LD, which I personally think is even more uneven (like, there are brilliant episodes, and there are episodes so bad I've turned them off).
Like in TOS, the urge to focus stories on Spock is too irresistable.
I will admit they are dipping into the Spock/T'Pring story a bit too much, though it did give us the first light-hearted live action episode of the franchise since its return in 2017. (I'm sorry, but that's just FAR too long to go without something light-hearted. Doesn't have to occur every other week, but once in after roughly 75 episodes and 6 aired seasons is just going overboard the other way.)
As far as using SNW to compare against DISCO or PICARD, that's hard to avoid because, at least speaking for myself, the overreliance on season long arcs with no breathing room is a chief complaint about the previous shows, particularly when the ending is rushed or it doesn't stick the landing. SNW essentially corrects that course, for lack of a better term. (In defense of both shows, both recent seasons DID finish their seasons very, very well. So perhaps the writers now have a more firm grasp on what they are trying to accomplish.)
And while SNW is not perfect, because no ST show is, I would have to say its first season is the best premiere season of the franchise since TOS season 1. And this is coming from a hardcore Niner.
I will admit they are dipping into the Spock/T'Pring story a bit too much, though it did give us the first light-hearted live action episode of the franchise since its return in 2017. (I'm sorry, but that's just FAR too long to go without something light-hearted. Doesn't have to occur every other week, but once in after roughly 75 episodes and 6 aired seasons is just going overboard the other way.)
As far as using SNW to compare against DISCO or PICARD, that's hard to avoid because, at least speaking for myself, the overreliance on season long arcs with no breathing room is a chief complaint about the previous shows, particularly when the ending is rushed or it doesn't stick the landing. SNW essentially corrects that course, for lack of a better term. (In defense of both shows, both recent seasons DID finish their seasons very, very well. So perhaps the writers now have a more firm grasp on what they are trying to accomplish.)
And while SNW is not perfect, because no ST show is, I would have to say its first season is the best premiere season of the franchise since TOS season 1. And this is coming from a hardcore Niner.
I guess they could always Remaster those episodes to have those ships docked at the station. Assuming the DS9 Bluray/streaming Remasters ever happen.
Difficult. TOS and TNG are done on film. Natural high resolution that analog TV could not really show. DS9 and VOY were done on tape. They are stuck at analog TV resolution. It will take a jump in computer power to fix that.
Controversial Opinion:
If you create a bunch of shows that are all basically the same (episodic, ship-based, ecclectic crew led by intrepid and virtuous captain, etc.) as each other and the same as what came before, you will very quickly find yourself in VOY / ENT territory of everyone just apathetically tuning out because it's all gotten so old and stale.
If SNW had been the show that kicked off things in 2017, it would have been just as maligned as DSC, and perhaps even worse, it would have been viewed as "even more of the same" going all the way back to ENT.
And this comes from someone who really liked S1 of SNW...and I agree it's definitely one of the strongest 1st seasons of the whole franchise. But, I think the appreciation for it is absolutely a product of the timing of its release.
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I'm talking about following every "I love SNW" comment with a comment about Discovery or a veiled "real/proper/optimistic Trek" comment when just saying "I love SNW" would do.
Again you could say " I love the new cast" without then having to say "unlike Lt. What'shername and Lt. Black guy in the background"
When I come off the high of watching SNW each week it's a drag to see every positive comment ended with a negative one. It has generally made me avoid the SNW threads.
I can't argue that point. After 6 seasons of season long arcs, SNW benefits from either burnout of the former format or just plain irritation of the season arcs.
I will admit my view is colored by that fact, and it certainlydidn't hurt that bringing in Mount for DISCO season 2 elevated things and get us prepared. (Utilizing Number One and the casting choice of Romijn was also a great move.)
Having said that, I still think I would have preferred SNW if it came first for two basic reasons. First, the entire cast is likeable and compelling in different ways. Second, the stories are divided pretty well among them all. (Obviously some, like Noonien-Singh, got more spotlight than others, like Ortegas. But every show has that... even DS9, though it's far less obvious and very few characters got shortended.) At the end of the day, I watch a series for the characters. I'm pretty sure that's a similar feeling with most viewers.
With DISCO, we barely knew the names of the bridge crew, let alone get any stories around them. They started correcting that with season 2 onward, but they still focus too much on the 'save the universe' arcs. Particularly since the episodes are streaming and not beholden to broadcast airtime, you can do a lot with a couple extra minutes. As proof, look at what DS9 did with their characters... within the confines of broadcast timing. (Granted, they had twice the amount of episodes, but how many scenes in DISCO or PICARD have just a fun but enlightening conversation between 2 characters that don't involve the end of things? Something like the root beer scene on DS9... a scene that not only gave us great dialogue from two characters, but gave a different perspective of the Federation. Little things that go a LONG way, particularly in making the universe they inhabit feel real.)
SNW has already given us a bunch of scenes like that, which is another part of why I love it so much. I am not sure if these can be considered spoilers, so I will tag them just in case.
Little scenes like those go far in making the Enterprise feel lived in and real. Personally, I find those kind of scenes just as entertaining, if not more so, than saving the world or the Federation or the universe.
I will admit my view is colored by that fact, and it certainlydidn't hurt that bringing in Mount for DISCO season 2 elevated things and get us prepared. (Utilizing Number One and the casting choice of Romijn was also a great move.)
Having said that, I still think I would have preferred SNW if it came first for two basic reasons. First, the entire cast is likeable and compelling in different ways. Second, the stories are divided pretty well among them all. (Obviously some, like Noonien-Singh, got more spotlight than others, like Ortegas. But every show has that... even DS9, though it's far less obvious and very few characters got shortended.) At the end of the day, I watch a series for the characters. I'm pretty sure that's a similar feeling with most viewers.
With DISCO, we barely knew the names of the bridge crew, let alone get any stories around them. They started correcting that with season 2 onward, but they still focus too much on the 'save the universe' arcs. Particularly since the episodes are streaming and not beholden to broadcast airtime, you can do a lot with a couple extra minutes. As proof, look at what DS9 did with their characters... within the confines of broadcast timing. (Granted, they had twice the amount of episodes, but how many scenes in DISCO or PICARD have just a fun but enlightening conversation between 2 characters that don't involve the end of things? Something like the root beer scene on DS9... a scene that not only gave us great dialogue from two characters, but gave a different perspective of the Federation. Little things that go a LONG way, particularly in making the universe they inhabit feel real.)
SNW has already given us a bunch of scenes like that, which is another part of why I love it so much. I am not sure if these can be considered spoilers, so I will tag them just in case.
Like every time we see Pike cook for his crew. Him getting to know them, or just the friendly banter between various crew in those dinners.
Or scenes involving 'Enterprise Bingo'.
Or scenes involving 'Enterprise Bingo'.
Little scenes like those go far in making the Enterprise feel lived in and real. Personally, I find those kind of scenes just as entertaining, if not more so, than saving the world or the Federation or the universe.
Ah, I get what you are saying. You may be right. I can't speak for others, but when I do add in a comparison after talking about SNW, it's not in a spirit of hatred for DISCO or PICARD. Quite the opposite, I just like them for different reasons.
If I do come across that way, I am not aware of that. However, I'll try to limit my comparisons of SNW and DISCO and PICARD.
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