Spoilers The Orville: New Horizons Season 3 Discussion

[Bgt]

I get that it was hard to watch. But maybe it was to hammer the point home (no pun intended). By actually seeing the torture, the audience will have a stronger emotional response.

That is the problem, the audience should feel terrible about a kid being tortured without the need to watch it. There are many things that can cause a strong emotional response, like good writing and caring about the characters.
Not to mention the "abuse" as a plot device. "Lets torture a child, that would convince Union to finally kick the Moclans out".
The whole story was about Topa being abused by friends and enemies. Worst of all was Heveena, trying to exploit a kid for the greater good. They should had also kicked her out of the Union..

Because it was important to the story.

So in a movie about pedophiles it would be important to see in details how they rape a child?

 

[Tuskin38]

So in a movie about pedophiles it would be important to see in details how they rape a child?

These are two separate issues.

Plus it probably wouldn't be legal to actually depict that.

Not to mention the "abuse" as a plot device. "Lets torture a child, that would convince Union to finally kick the Moclans out".

I'm still not seeing the issue of using it as a plot device.

It was pure evil looking

No, it wasn't.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Gordon's outburst made me think of Christianity.

Also, did Kelly Hu even have a line?

Yes she did, around 1:11 during the meeting.

 

[Amaris]

It was pure evil looking

It was a sweet smile. It was a grateful smile because Kelly not only saved his child, but helped Klyden see where he went wrong and saved his relationship with his daughter.

 

[Bornin1980something]

Gordon's outburst made me think of Christianity.

In what way?

 

[FPAlpha]

I forget: what is the reason exactly why the Union needed Moclus? They mention they need weapons to help fight the Kaylons. But does Moclus have some unique resource that is used to make a certain weapon, or is Moclus really good at building weapons? At the end of this ep, I think the admiral says that the Union will just have to get by without Moclus. I could see it being an issue if Moclus had some unique resource that is needed to make a certain weapon that is not available anywhere else. But if it was just that Moclus was good at building weapons, I would imagine the Union has good engineers that could design and build good weapons too.

One of their specialties is weapons development and manufacture alongside heavy industry, so they are vital for the Union during war. Problem is apparently that the Union used their ressources elsewhere and used Moclus as their primary weapons developer and producer, which is good enough when things are fine and nobody is rocking the boat.

Now the Union has kicked out Moclus so they will have to pick up their part, which is not ideal in the middle of the war to say the least but it is what it is.

Loved Gordon "There it is Sherlock!" ( ) and especially his outburst during the meeting where he laid out in plain speak what everybody was already thinking.

 

[Amaris]

One of their specialties is weapons development and manufacture alongside heavy industry, so they are vital for the Union during war. Problem is apparently that the Union used their ressources elsewhere and used Moclus as their primary weapons developer and producer, which is good enough when things are fine and nobody is rocking the boat.

Now the Union has kicked out Moclus so they will have to pick up their part, which is not ideal in the middle of the war to say the least but it is what it is.

Loved Gordon "There it is Sherlock!" ( ) and especially his outburst during the meeting where he laid out what in plain speak what everybody was already thinking.

When Gordon spoke up I literally called out "fucking thank you!"

 

[thribs]

Well that will teach Topa for not wanting to go on missions.

 

[Amaris]

Well that will teach Topa for not wanting to go on missions.

Topa shouldn't have to fear for her life simply because she exists. If anything, after a time where she can recover and recoup, I expect it will make her more determined to protect herself and other Moclan women from the abuse she faced at the hands of her own culture.

 

[Aragorn]

In what way?

Getting away with so much awful shit in the name of tolerance, then when called out on it going all-in with the persecution complex and acting like they're the victims.

 

[asupackman]

First, great episode. I will admit that I was disappointed in the first couple of episodes and thought the extended time wasn't being put to every good use, but ever since "Gently Falling Rain" every episode has been terrific and I feel they've made great use of the extra time, especially in this episode.

Spoiler: Long winded thought, see TLDR summary below.

As far as the most recent episode, I kept expecting the reveal to be that Haveena betrayed Topa. When Ed confronts her and says that she has to know SOMETHING, I thought the stuff about Topa helping the females communicate with their contact on Moclus was a story to give her (Haveena) cover in case she fell into the very situation she did. I kept expecting the pay off/delema to be that the Moclans had discoered that Helveena was sumggling females off Moclus again, but they agreed not to attack the colony and end the agreement with the Union if Haveena agreed to help them apprehend Topa, who's transition back to female was a galactic embarassment for them. Yes Haveena betrayed Topa, but she also helped protect the population of the colony and perhaps could find a way to continue her smuggling another way. It also would have explained why the Moclan team landed before they were supposed to, they were revealing to Haveena they knew she was smuggling again and demanded she turn Topa over to them.

I have to admit, and I may have missed something, but I was confused because... how did the Moclans know that Topa knew the information about the contact and the communication frequencies? Isn't the chain of events: 1) Haveena asks Topa to help them and gives her the information. 2) Topa follows the "firefly" into the forest and is ambushed by the Moclans. 2) The Moclans sabatage the Union shuttle then flee on their shuttle with Topa.

When did the Moclans learn that Topa had the information they wanted? Did they overhear it during their inspection? Does Haveena have a leak/traitor?

TL/DR: How did the Moclans know Topa had the information about the contact they wanted? Haveena asked her to help, then she follows the firefly into the woods and is kidnapped without interacting with anyone.

 

[Romulan_spy]

TL/DR: How did the Moclans know Topa had the information about the contact they wanted? Haveena asked her to help, then she follows the firefly into the woods and is kidnapped without interacting with anyone.

Haveena mentions that the blue firefly was very rare. I think the blue firefly was actually a Moclan listening device. The Moclan were using the blue firefly to eavesdrop on the conversation between Topa and Haveena. That would explain how they knew about Topa having the info they wanted.

 

[Tuskin38]

Some trivia about filming a certain scene
https://twitter.com/sethmacfarlane/status/1550199935844229120?s=21&t=1Rt0WYm4BUdtyQ-ev4uLhA

 

[thribs]

Haveena mentions that the blue firefly was very rare. I think the blue firefly was actually a Moclan listening device. The Moclan were using the blue firefly to eavesdrop on the conversation between Topa and Haveena. That would explain how they knew about Topa having the info they wanted.

If that was the case, wouldn’t they have heard who the informant was from that?

 

[tomalak301]

One of my favorite 2 part episodes in all of Star Trek is Deep Space Nine's In Purgatory's Shadow and By Inferno's Light. It was a huge universe shifting two part episode that upped the status quo and it was done in midseason. Watching the end of this Orville episode, the first thing I asked myself was is this Orville's IPS/BIL momen?. It sure felt like it. We've seen this story building since season 1, and there were big political shifts to the big picture, not to mention when Klyden appeared and confessed to Topa, I was immediately reminded of when Tain told Garak that he was proud of him.

I was dreading the 90 minute run time, but like the Topa episode earlier this season, everything felt earned. It was great to see Haveena again (Even though I do think she is not innocent in all this, mainly for putting Topa in this position to start with) and that Dolly cameo was really great. When they were playing the song as the Orville was warping off, I was thinking this was Seth McFarlane being a little cocky in a good way.

I'm hoping we are done with the Moclans for the rest of the season, but I have a feeling all this (And the Krill) will be coming to a head in the finale.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Often you need to have what you know as fact to still be verified.

After they broke her, they could have gotten more information, even though the decision was to kill her, but at least it confirmed for later that torture worked, and they needed practice torturing women, for later when it actually mattered.

Ed also tortured Heveena, and it also worked.

Mochlan women seem to be very susceptible to light torture?

 

[Romulan_spy]

If that was the case, wouldn’t they have heard who the informant was from that?

Maybe depending on if the audio was good enough. Or maybe the blue firefly was just a camera, with no audio. So they saw Haveena talking closely with Topa and assumed she might be trying to recruit Topa since they suspected Haveena of still smuggling young female Moclans out of Moclus. So they kidnapped Topa to get more information.

 

[Tuskin38]

We the audience never found out who the contact on Moclas was, it cut to Kelly when Topa was being told, so I assumed not hearing the name would be important, but I guess not.

 

[Bornin1980something]

Locar?

 

[FreezeC77]

That was really a great episode.

It dragged a bit in the first third i have to say but picked up speed after it until i was glued to the screen. So many powerful scenes in this - the torture ( i'm not sure i see it that often that a show or movie has the balls to depict child torture), her appearance before the council, Klyden breaking down and admitting he was wrong but above all i adore the sequence when Dolly sings, that was so well arranged and executed i had to rewatch it immediately after the episode ended.

The Union expelling Moclus for this is also the kind of fantasy i sometimes need because i wish our current political leadership would have the strength and courage to make such big and right decisions when it was time, yes it is risky but i believe we'd be better off if they did.

I was ready to give up on the show after a few episodes into the season - it was a bit uneven in quality, no humor that characterized Orville for me but episode by episode they have improved and now i'm looking forward to each new one.

I think that was kinda the intent. To talk about those deals with regimes that 'are the devils' and who you know are actively violating the civil rights and human rights your nation/regime supports, but yet you still work with them and make excuses for why you work with them.

The sadder thing is that while the Union had probably a better reason for it in terms of the defense against the Kaylons, in our world these partnerships with evil regimes almost always have the most important reason being $$$.