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Episodes where the entire plot fundamentally doesn't work
- Thread starter TommyR01D
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Played by Quark even. Too bad it didn't feature any advertising suggesting they have the reception at his bar.
But really, the super-80s costumes and hairstyles in that episode make it more than worth it. Who could forget Tasha cosplaying Billy Idol? (I was going to say the lead singer of "Roxette" but Marie Fredricksson has passed away in 2019, so I wasn't sure whether it'd be disrespectful. For what it's worth, I liked Roxette and, though I'm gay, I still think Fredricksson was a very beautiful woman in her youth, but still...80s hair)
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Dear God, NO! There should be no "creating a fourth watch from scratch".
I talked about this in-depth in another topic last year. Short version: a ship the size of the Enterprise will have at least four and probably six teams to rotate duty shifts. With six teams, Team One works only the day shift three-days on and three days off. When they're off, Team Four is working days, again three-on/three-off. Teams Two and Five alternate on Swing Shift, while Teams Three and Six work the Night shift.
All they would have had to do what (with 12+ hours notice, mind you) notify one of the teams who were on their weekend to report for duty that night. Easy done. Been there, done that, many times in my 26 year USAF career.
I missed that, but again, not a huge issue. As I said, they probably have six teams, so reassign two of them to Security. Easy done.
Yes, this means the rest get no days off, no "weekends". That is the only valid issue that Riker could have told Jellico about, that the crew would burn out with no down time, to which Jellico would have replied, "Yes, I know that. We're in crisis mode, so it's all hands on deck. Once the crisis is over, we'll go back to normal operations. So go make it happen."
But there is no dialogue that mentions 4 or 6 teams. Only shifts... 3 of them, until Jellico. We only have that to go by.
Sane with Geordi telling Riker that 1/3 of his entire department was transferred to security. For arguably the most important department on the ship, that's a huge decrease in manpower on such a short notice.
I agree Jellico was getting the ship ready for a fight, but Geordi was having an issue because he wasn't given the time needed to get it done, particularly with 1/3 of his people gone.
If he was so hell bent on having them go to security, at least let Geordi keep his people until the work was done or nearly done, then move people over. This way, the ship is ready for battle and all hands are ready.
The 4 shift switch... a sudden move like that does throw a lot of chaos directly before the negotiations. On DS9, Kira made the suggestion to go to a 4 shift rotation, which Sisko agreed to try out. It was only after at least a couple months (at the end of "STARSHIP DOWN" to the middle of "ACCESSION", about a 10 episode gap) that they analyzed the change and decided to make it permanent.
Sane with Geordi telling Riker that 1/3 of his entire department was transferred to security. For arguably the most important department on the ship, that's a huge decrease in manpower on such a short notice.
I agree Jellico was getting the ship ready for a fight, but Geordi was having an issue because he wasn't given the time needed to get it done, particularly with 1/3 of his people gone.
If he was so hell bent on having them go to security, at least let Geordi keep his people until the work was done or nearly done, then move people over. This way, the ship is ready for battle and all hands are ready.
The 4 shift switch... a sudden move like that does throw a lot of chaos directly before the negotiations. On DS9, Kira made the suggestion to go to a 4 shift rotation, which Sisko agreed to try out. It was only after at least a couple months (at the end of "STARSHIP DOWN" to the middle of "ACCESSION", about a 10 episode gap) that they analyzed the change and decided to make it permanent.
Well, if you look at it with any reality in mind (something Hollywood writers fail to do a lot), there's no way a ship that size only has three teams.
I might believe it, maybe, that a smaller ship runs with only three teams. Even then, it's probably have to have extra bodies on each team to rotate for "weekends". I'd have to crunch the numbers to be sure, but let's say there's 12 people on shift at a time, I want to say they need four extra bodies per team so everyone works four-on/two-off. Times three teams, that's a dozen extra people, which happens to be enough to build a fourth team for Delta shift. Of course, nobody gets any days off.
The point is, the department heads told Riker that the change would cause "significant personnel problems". Why is irrelevant. Given that they were professionals who knew their departments, we must assume that they were right. Riker communicated this information to Jellico... and Jellico said to so it anyway. He deliberately caused significant personnel problems in a ship that was potentially about to go into combat. That borders on criminal negligence.
Yeah, the departments heads didn't do their jobs. If they can't make this happen with 12+ hours notice, they shouldn't be in charge. I can recall a time or two when I had to cover a shift for someone with only two hours notice.
It was a poorly researched plot point and hence fundamentally doesn't work (the name of this thread!!).
Jellico was within his rights, the department heads were wrong, and Riker was doubly wrong.
You're not going to change my mind on this one.
Then we will agree to disagree. Unlike some others, I can handle that.
"Thine Own Self" requires some very specific, very inconsistent amnesia on Data's part in order to function. I suppose it's not impossible that Data could remember how to build (and describe) the complex optics of a microscope while not remembering what the word "radioactive" means, but it seems... unlikely.
The only explanation which meets the facts given in the episode was Jellico was a Cardassian plant. He prioritised office decoration over improving engine efficiency, He hid in his room looking a kids pictures rather than briefing his first officer, His first move on boarding the ship was to run to his quarters.
Those are the undeniable facts shown in the episode.
Riker pissed off someone in command after turning down the Melbourne. He turned down 3 ships - all similar to the Cairo, in 3 years, post 359 the command sentiment was he should not be in command - he received no more offers for the next 10 years until the Titan, which explains why they drafted in someone so poorly suited for command of a galaxy class starship rather than Riker. It wasn’t competency, it was bad admirals, something TNG was known for.
True. But some episreally step in it.
How's about "Worst Case Scenario"? Seska's cover was still intact when she found Tuvok's training scenario in the database. Why would she have effectively blown it by making the changes that she did? Also, given that she was effectively doing the exact same thing to the Maquis as Tuvok was, why would she have been bent out of shape about him having infiltrated them?
How's about "Worst Case Scenario"? Seska's cover was still intact when she found Tuvok's training scenario in the database. Why would she have effectively blown it by making the changes that she did? Also, given that she was effectively doing the exact same thing to the Maquis as Tuvok was, why would she have been bent out of shape about him having infiltrated them?
"Silicon Avatar" is an interesting episode, but it has one big flaw of logic: While searching for a way to find and communicate with the Crystalline Entity, Dr. Marr is initially hostile to Data because Lore collaborated with the Entity. But if Lore was collaborating with the Entity, then he ALREADY found a way to communicate with it, now didn't he!? No one EVER brings that up!
"Cause and Effect" has a similar problem. After realizing that they're trapped in a loop because of an accident, it's suggested they reverse course, and Riker says "for all me know, that's what causes they accident", except that it CAN'T BE. They would've had not reason to reverse course the first time!
"Cause and Effect" has a similar problem. After realizing that they're trapped in a loop because of an accident, it's suggested they reverse course, and Riker says "for all me know, that's what causes they accident", except that it CAN'T BE. They would've had not reason to reverse course the first time!
"All Good Things" breaks its own rules about the anti-time anomaly in the future timeline. Since it grows backwards in time, it should have been there when the Pasteur went searching for it, then disappeared once they initiated the tachyon beam, leaving no anomaly to take the Enterprise inside to repair and resulting in the end of all life on Earth. Oops.
My personal fix for that is that once the anomaly is triggered it starts expanding both backward and forward in time. I'm not sure it solves all the problems, but it helps.
With regards to Jellico, perhaps the E-D's reputation works against the crew...which is to say, he actually believes the hype about the ship being the flagship and having crew who are the best of the best, and as such, he expects that they can put up with "significant difficulties" on short notice and get their jobs done with the same level of awesome their reputation suggests they typically demonstrate.
At my job I've occasionally been asked to do things and given responses to the effect of "I can do it but it will be a significant challenge". Sometimes the request gets dropped, sometimes it gets modified, and sometimes it's, "Understood. Do it anyway."
Regarding "Silicon Avatar" and Lore, I suppose the only reason why it wasn't brought up was because there was no way to ask Lore.
Regarding "WORST CASE SCENARIO", as weird as this sounds, her making those changes helps reinforce her cover as a Maquis. No one would suspect her of spying for the Cardassians if she went to all that trouble in their name.
If I remember right, Kim said Seska did those alterations about a month before she left with the Kazon. Maybe this was some kind of backup plan since she was likely talking with the Nistrim at that point.
Regarding "WORST CASE SCENARIO", as weird as this sounds, her making those changes helps reinforce her cover as a Maquis. No one would suspect her of spying for the Cardassians if she went to all that trouble in their name.
If I remember right, Kim said Seska did those alterations about a month before she left with the Kazon. Maybe this was some kind of backup plan since she was likely talking with the Nistrim at that point.
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YES, there is no point where it mages sense for Seska to have done that. If the episode weren’t otherwise very well written it’d be remembered alongside Threshold.
Force Of Nature has fundamental problems. Heavy handed attempts to push environmentalism but just not thought through.
Similar to the Enterprise episode about mind melds. Whoever thought it was a good idea to make mind melds an allegory for AIDS, holy shit.
I have one... "COLD FRONT".
Why did Silik stop the surge? He was instructed to do it, yes... but why, if Future Guy seemed to be the villain? We never did get an answer in that episode, or any later one for that matter.
The entire Temporal Cold War was a huge mess, and I was THRILLED when it was ended.
Why did Silik stop the surge? He was instructed to do it, yes... but why, if Future Guy seemed to be the villain? We never did get an answer in that episode, or any later one for that matter.
The entire Temporal Cold War was a huge mess, and I was THRILLED when it was ended.
The only potentially good thing it might have done was explain why Voyager's nacelles repositioned before she went to warp. But they never bothered actually explaining it.
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