Spoilers Stranger Things - Season 4

[Mage]

When you boil it down and take it in perspective... Conan's Atlantean sword, provided it is 'real' steel and sharpened, is not a weapon to be sneezed at. I'd take it over a lot of similar weapons in similar dire circumstances- I'm just sayin'...

The Atlantean's design would never work as a real sword. Blade geometry, weigth distribution.... It would weigh in at over 8 pounds and swing like a crowbar. People have the wrong idea about swords. On average, an Oakeshott Type XIIa for example would weigh in at just under or just above 3 pounds. The Atlantean is a fantasy thing, not a historical sword.

 

[Jedi Marso]

The Atlantean's design would never work as a real sword. Blade geometry, weigth distribution.... It would weigh in at over 8 pounds and swing like a crowbar. People have the wrong idea about swords. On average, an Oakeshott Type XIIa for example would weigh in at just under or just above 3 pounds. The Atlantean is a fantasy thing, not a historical sword.

Jim Hopper and Conan the Barbarian disagree.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

"If we're trying to avoid angry hicks, maybe we shouldn't go to some store called the War Zone."

I finally had the opportunity to watch the two episodes (stuck at the beach, woe is me, I know!) and they were well worth the wait! I've got a lot of thoughts and I'll catch up with what everyone else said afterwards, so bear with me when I inevitably cover ground already discussed.

I was wrong about Max dying. Thankfully, El was able to revive her...but at a severe cost (and I'm glad it wasn't an easy turnaround). The most shocking part was actually seeing Max's body twisting unnaturally before El was able to intervene One's attack. That was painful to watch, not just seeing the physicality of it, but also staring in disbelief that the Duffer Brothers were indeed killing her. Even more painful to watch was Lucas' tearful howling and trying to comfort her after she fell back to the ground, along with Max freaking out about her collective numbness and blindness before slipping away. I'm very curious to see what kind of role Max will have in the final season with her extensive physical injuries and apparent empty mind. Granted there will be some kind of time jump but the cliffhanger gave a sense of urgency of the situation, so I'm not sure if the jump will be large enough to allow Max to recover from at least her physical injuries (I imagine the blindness, however, will be permanent).

Far less surprising, since I think everyone called it, was Eddie's death. But I greatly appreciated Eddie taking heart in the fact that he didn't run away in fear like he did after Christie's horrifying death, and did so to save Dustin's life. I also loved how Dustin comforted Eddie's uncle about Eddie's sacrifice on the most basic level (since the full truth would've been to much), a sacrifice he made even in the face of how much Hawkins hated and feared him.

I was a bit surprised by Brenner's death but it also makes sense. The final season needs to narrow its focus so his death allows El to battle against One without Brenner's shadow hanging over her. That said, I still hold out onto hope that Kali will return for the final battle, especially since there wasn't really any room for her in this season.

On a much lighter note, the dad bod is gone! I'm so happy Hop and Joyce have finally embraced their love for each other after so much suffering they've gone through (some of it against each other!). I especially loved how Hop immediately saw what Joyce was thinking and feeling as they were devising their attack against the Demogorgon and Demodogs, and he gently reassured her that this time was going to be different, which shows just how much he has grown as a character. While I was really hoping Joyce would get to use the flamethrower, at least she got to use the shock stick to save Hop from the Demodog and help heal her Bob-shaped wound in her heart.

As expected, the final two episodes finally bring Will's sexuality to the forefront, although without explicitly stating it. Jonathan hasn't had much to do this season, so I particularly loved, upon keenly seeing what Will was going through, Jonathan's heart-to-heart conversation about him always loving Will, that he can talk to him about anything, and nothing about him will ever change that...which lead to that tearful hug in the trailer that we were all wrong about. With Will pushing Mike towards El and for Mike to fully embrace his role as the heart of the party, it seems like Will is trying to move on from his feelings for Mike, but I won't be surprised if this plot thread returns next season.

For all of the crazy things the Duffer Brothers do on this show, most of which I love, I admire how they're able to make fun of certain situations of their own creation. Specifically the whole Henry/One/Vecna naming situation and what people should be calling him.

As much as I loved this season, there are a couple of things didn't work out in the end plot wise. Jason the Jock's rageful vendetta against Eddie kind of petered out after he worked so hard to rile up the Hawkins community. I fully expected to see an angry mob as part of the diversions in the final act but I'm actually grateful that didn't happen. But nothing coming out of that potential mob just made that particular town hall scene kind of unnecessary beyond reflecting the actual 80s Satanic panic...and Ted's way on-the-nose commentary about today's news media.

The whole Sullivan plotline didn't really work either. It served its purpose in driving some urgency in the West Coast plotlines but it still felt unnecessary and a bit ridiculous. But I did at least enjoy watching El violently throwing the helicopter to the ground after those assholes mowed down civilians. I really hope we don't see him again but based on the look on his face as our heroes fled the base, I suspect he'll have a presence next season with the chaos in Hawkins.

But to end on a positive note, I loved the cliffhanger. Hawkins is a disaster zone and people are understandably getting the fuck out. I particularly loved the haunting image of the Upside Down-esque ashes falling everywhere as all of our heroes brace themselves for what's yet to come.

I need season 5 now!

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Also how am I only now just realising that Eddie's uncle is Enoch from Agent's of Shield (as he has always been)?!

Oh duh! It's so obvious now! I knew I recognized those eyes but I was completely thrown off by all of the hair!

Argyle invented Hawaiian Pizza. He's the true monster.

Amen.

El enjoying it breaks my heart.

My Max theory:

Eleven can't reach her, not because of the coma, but because of the reason she's in the coma. That is, there's NOTHING to reach. If her death still triggered the portal, then it stands to reason that everything Max was has still been consumed by Vecna/One/Henry. Meaning there is no mind left to inhabit the body that Eleven kept alive with her powers.

However, this sets up an obvious heist plot for next season. Because if everything Max was is now a part of Vecna, but her body still lives, then there is hope to reunite the two. I'm expecting we'll get a season of One using Max's memory/relationships to torment the party until Eleven is able to rip her back out of him and put her back where she belongs.

I initially balked at your idea that Max's mind was completely consumed and that's it for her, but I do like the idea of El trying to find some way to reunite Max's still existing mind from One to Max's body. That'll be a curious plotline to follow, although since it's the final season, I hope it's not one takes the entirety of the season before the reunion.

That dude giving Nancy shit about her gun. Bro, do you even know? That girl is probably the most badass with a gun in the whole damn town lol. They should probably give her a scene in the last season where Hopper just gives her HIS gun

YES. I need that scene to happen now!

Did anyone catch the Aliens easter egg right after the evil army won their initial firefight in the bunker?

The general tells them: "Quarter and search by twos. Hicks, take the upper level."

Not sure if having Winona Ryder walk into a lab full of monstrous specimen was an intentional nod to Alien Resurrection or not.

Oh, nice. I didn't think of either of those.

But then I think only Alien is the only good one. Yes, I said what I said!

 

[Awesome Possum]

As expected, the final two episodes finally bring Will's sexuality to the forefront, although without explicitly stating it. Jonathan hasn't had much to do this season, so I particularly loved, upon keenly seeing what Will was going through, Jonathan's heart-to-heart conversation about him always loving Will, that he can talk to him about anything, and nothing about him will ever change that...which lead to that tearful hug in the trailer that we were all wrong about. With Will pushing Mike towards El and for Mike to fully embrace his role as the heart of the party, it seems like Will is trying to move on from his feelings for Mike, but I won't be surprised if this plot thread returns next season.

I guess we'll get some sort of coming out scene in season five. I do think that Will is in a supportive place. Jonathan has clearly figured it out and is just giving him the time he needs to come out and I don't think that Joyce would be anything but supportive.

 

[Mojochi]

I guess we'll get some sort of coming out scene in season five. I do think that Will is in a supportive place. Jonathan has clearly figured it out and is just giving him the time he needs to come out and I don't think that Joyce would be anything but supportive.

It's almost becoming weird dramatically that they're drawing it out. I honestly think it ought to be evident by now, in universe, that there's no one in the entire cast of characters who'd have any issue with it at all (Despite the era), especially after all they've been through together.

The only issue might be that he's apparently got feelings for Mike, which by now ought to be perfectly clear that they wouldn't be mutual, but the coming out issue? I mean it's not like there were no gay people in the 80s. We had plenty coming to the foreground of society, & yes, they had a terrible time of it... a lot, but I just have a hard time thinking Will would be worried about that in HIS circle, considering everything else he's got to worry about. They've even matured quite a lot since their "It's not my fault you don't like girls" spat. It ought to be clearer to everyone imho

Whenever they do finally finish that arc, it'll certainly be a beautifully emotional moment, but kind of overblown in the scope of the show imho, which could be a little underwhelming maybe. I'm sure it'll be fine, & I'm not sure how they could've gone about it differently or better, but there it is. My personal opinion is that I REALLY wish they'd find more for Will to do in the last season, than just that, like a full circle, because of how stunning his character was & mattered in the 1st season. It's a little disappointing if that's all he's going to be reduced to. I feel like they'll do more

YES. I need that scene to happen now!

I know, right? She is the gun blazer on that show. It's only fitting.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It's almost becoming weird dramatically that they're drawing it out. I honestly think it ought to be evident by now, in universe, that there's no one in the entire cast of characters who'd have any issue with it at all (Despite the era), especially after all they've been through together.

The only issue might be that he's apparently got feelings for Mike, which by now ought to be perfectly clear that they wouldn't be mutual, but the coming out issue? I mean it's not like there were no gay people in the 80s. We had plenty coming to the foreground of society, & yes, they had a terrible time of it... a lot, but I just have a hard time thinking Will would be worried about that in HIS circle, considering everything else he's got to worry about. They've even matured quite a lot since their "It's not my fault you don't like girls" spat. It ought to be clearer to everyone imho

Whenever they do finally finish that arc, it'll certainly be a beautifully emotional moment, but kind of overblown in the scope of the show imho, which could be a little underwhelming maybe. I'm sure it'll be fine, & I'm not sure how they could've gone about it differently or better, but there it is. My personal opinion is that I REALLY wish they'd find more for Will to do in the last season, than just that, like a full circle, because of how stunning his character was & mattered in the 1st season. It's a little disappointing if that's all he's going to be reduced to. I feel like they'll do more
I know, right? She is the gun blazer on that show. It's only fitting.

I figure that Will is going to have some involvement since he's still connected to Vecna through his connection to the Mind Flayer. Which makes him an asset and a target.

 

[theenglish]

I guess we'll get some sort of coming out scene in season five. I do think that Will is in a supportive place. Jonathan has clearly figured it out and is just giving him the time he needs to come out and I don't think that Joyce would be anything but supportive.

I think at this point, they've about all they need to do with Will's wrestling with his emotions. He is lucky in that his family and friends are all people who are going to be supportive, so it would be really nice to just have the season open with Will already out to his friends and family, and maybe even with a boyfriend. It would be nice to have him happy for a change.

 

[Starkers]

I was wrong about Max dying. Thankfully, El was able to revive her...but at a severe cost (and I'm glad it wasn't an easy turnaround). The most shocking part was actually seeing Max's body twisting unnaturally before El was able to intervene One's attack. That was painful to watch, not just seeing the physicality of it, but also staring in disbelief that the Duffer Brothers were indeed killing her. Even more painful to watch was Lucas' tearful howling and trying to comfort her after she fell back to the ground, along with Max freaking out about her collective numbness and blindness before slipping away. I'm very curious to see what kind of role Max will have in the final season with her extensive physical injuries and apparent empty mind. Granted there will be some kind of time jump but the cliffhanger gave a sense of urgency of the situation, so I'm not sure if the jump will be large enough to allow Max to recover from at least her physical injuries (I imagine the blindness, however, will be permanent).

Far less surprising, since I think everyone called it, was Eddie's death. But I greatly appreciated Eddie taking heart in the fact that he didn't run away in fear like he did after Christie's horrifying death, and did so to save Dustin's life. I also loved how Dustin comforted Eddie's uncle about Eddie's sacrifice on the most basic level (since the full truth would've been to much), a sacrifice he made even in the face of how much Hawkins hated and feared him.

I was a bit surprised by Brenner's death but it also makes sense. The final season needs to narrow its focus so his death allows El to battle against One without Brenner's shadow hanging over her. That said, I still hold out onto hope that Kali will return for the final battle, especially since there wasn't really any room for her in this season.

The only thing that bugged me was the timing. Vecna took Chrissie and the other kids really quickly yet Max took an eternity. Maybe Vecna was taking his time to enjoy the experience, maybe Max was just harder to affect but it did seem like Vecna's usual process slowed to a crawl to allow other characters time to intervene. That battle across many fronts was very good, but some of the pacing felt very off. Just how long were Nancy Steve and Robin tentacled to the wall for example? Surely wouldn't have taken much pressure to crush their throats.

 

[Jayson1]

From what I understand their will be a time jump next season to 1989 so in theory it means Will Byers could be in the closet for 3 more years of his life so I really wonder how they are going to deal with this next season.

 

[Mojochi]

I figure that Will is going to have some involvement since he's still connected to Vecna through his connection to the Mind Flayer. Which makes him an asset and a target.

For what it's worth, I saw a facebook post claiming that the Duffer's have said Will is definitely going to factor heavily in the next season. I'm not sure where it came from or how factual that is, but since it's already likely written, I get the feeling it'll ring true.

My only fear is that his current story arc, about him hiding his feelings for Mike, and more largely being closeted, could factor into some story about him going dark, or getting villainized or something like that, only to be redeemed in the end. Something like that could play a little cheap. I hope they got plans for a more interesting story than that

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Jason the Jock's rageful vendetta against Eddie kind of petered out after he worked so hard to rile up the Hawkins community

When he showed up at the gun store I had actually forgot that was a problem. I think like stereotype hippy guy he was mostly just to add 80s stuff.

I honestly think it ought to be evident by now, in universe, that there's no one in the entire cast of characters who'd have any issue with it at all (Despite the era), especially after all they've been through together.

It might be more about fear of rejection from Mike because it changes their relationship as opposed to fear of homophobia. I have certainly been in a similar situation with friends (in terms of the love bit but from a heterosexual position)

From what I understand their will be a time jump next season to 1989 so in theory it means Will Byers could be in the closet for 3 more years of his life so I really wonder how they are going to deal with this next season.

Is the 1989 thing confirmed. The situation looks kinda immediate to me so I wonder is the 89 thing just an epilogue

 

[Mr. Adventure]

The 80s were a different time though, I remember causing a bit of a family scandal by getting my ear pierced (how quaint lol) while in high school. I had a couple of schoolmates mention they liked it and would like to do it too but their dad would kick their ass or kick them out. I can only imagine how much more difficult it would be to come out in that climate even amongst friends.

 

[Mojochi]

It might be more about fear of rejection from Mike because it changes their relationship as opposed to fear of homophobia. I have certainly been in a similar situation with friends (in terms of the love bit but from a heterosexual position)

That's certainly possible. All these kids are pretty fragile about their relationships changing/drifting apart or what have you lol. 50% of the show is their personal drama, soap opera stuff, pining for someone, or struggling with a relationship dynamic change etc...

Is the 1989 thing confirmed. The situation looks kinda immediate to me so I wonder is the 89 thing just an epilogue

Yeah, I can't imagine a time skip TO 1989, from where they left things. Vecna just burst their dimension open, & Hawkins is already showing effects of the upsidedown spreading into it (the snow) Shit's going down like right now, from the look of it. There may be a jump down the line to a future date, but they almost have to pick up where they left off.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

From what I understand their will be a time jump next season to 1989 so in theory it means Will Byers could be in the closet for 3 more years of his life so I really wonder how they are going to deal with this next season.

Sure--its possible he would remain in the closet; there's no timetable on when someone makes that decision, and with Hawkins and just about everyone being threatened, Will may not feel it was the right time, or he's going to have his hands full since he can feel Vecna, and I assume Vecna knows that.

Is the 1989 thing confirmed. The situation looks kinda immediate to me so I wonder is the 89 thing just an epilogue

A jump that far would demand certain S4 storylines already wrapped up by the start of S5. For example, it would be stretching things if Max was still in a coma / "not in her mind" for that long, and I will go ahead and predict her mother moved Max to a larger hospital (with better facilities) in another city, no matter the cost (to a woman working two low paying jobs). If that happens, then one would expect Lucas to not be around the Hawkins action as much (unless its during the school year), until the trouble finds Max again.

 

[Reverend]

Disclaimer: the following are the thoughts and subjective opinions of a white, heterosexual cis gendered male, formed mostly through third hand experience & observation, and should be taken as such and no more.

It's almost becoming weird dramatically that they're drawing it out. I honestly think it ought to be evident by now, in universe, that there's no one in the entire cast of characters who'd have any issue with it at all (Despite the era), especially after all they've been through together.

It feels totally appropriate to the era, and the ages of the characters involved to me. Do not underestimate the depths of ignorance when it comes to things like this, in this time.
I'm a little younger than these (fictional) kids, but I lived through these times as a child, and the 90's as a teenager, and let me tell you I've had to do a lot of unlearning of assumptions, and engrained thinking in that time.

The only issue might be that he's apparently got feelings for Mike, which by now ought to be perfectly clear that they wouldn't be mutual, but the coming out issue? I mean it's not like there were no gay people in the 80s. We had plenty coming to the foreground of society, & yes, they had a terrible time of it... a lot, but I just have a hard time thinking Will would be worried about that in HIS circle, considering everything else he's got to worry about. They've even matured quite a lot since their "It's not my fault you don't like girls" spat. It ought to be clearer to everyone imho

Yes there were some prominent gay people that came out in the 80's . . . mostly because of a little thing called the AIDS epidemic, which brought about a whole other level of stigma into the mix. Plus, it's one thing for a grown adult celebrity to come out to the world, it's quite another for a small town kid. Lynching was (and is) still a thing.

As for his friends "knowing"; well you see when it comes to this kind of thing, in this kind of place, in this kind of time, there's "knowing" and then there's "actually openly acknowledging it to literally anyone, including oneself." Two VASTLY different concepts.

I think at this point, they've about all they need to do with Will's wrestling with his emotions. He is lucky in that his family and friends are all people who are going to be supportive, so it would be really nice to just have the season open with Will already out to his friends and family, and maybe even with a boyfriend. It would be nice to have him happy for a change.

That's a nice fantasy, but I rather suspect it would strike any gay people today that were that age in that time as being rather disingenuous.
Remember even Robin is terrified of being outed and labelled as the town pariah. Yeah, some people would be fine with it. Some wouldn't care either way. And some would very much not be OK, to the extent that they could make live orders of magnitude more difficult.
Doesn't matter that in actuality, anyone that messes with Will would have to first go through Hopper, El, and (most terrifyingly) Joyce; the mere fear of being outed was enough to keep even grown men very firmly closeted. Hell, even today there are grown arse adults who are quite understandably still in the closet.
This is not a social issue that got magically solved in the 80's. Though it was the dawn of public social acceptance, it had (and still has) a very long way to go, and the progress is glacial.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The only thing that bugged me was the timing. Vecna took Chrissie and the other kids really quickly yet Max took an eternity. Maybe Vecna was taking his time to enjoy the experience, maybe Max was just harder to affect but it did seem like Vecna's usual process slowed to a crawl to allow other characters time to intervene. That battle across many fronts was very good, but some of the pacing felt very off. Just how long were Nancy Steve and Robin tentacled to the wall for example? Surely wouldn't have taken much pressure to crush their throats.

The timing may feel off, but as you said, there were a lot of moving parts. I viewed those sequences as occurring simultaneously much like cinematic sequences often do. It just felt off here since there were so many stacked on top of each other that they eventually felt stretched out (particularly Steve/Robin/Nancy choking bit). So, you know, dramatic license and all of that.

From what I understand their will be a time jump next season to 1989 so in theory it means Will Byers could be in the closet for 3 more years of his life so I really wonder how they are going to deal with this next season.

Based on what? I haven't seen anything from the Duffer Brothers about when season 5 takes place. Later in my post are some links about the stuff they have talked about and that isn't one of them. So if you have a source on that claim, please provide it.

I'm a little younger than these (fictional) kids, but I lived through these times as a child, and the 90's as a teenager, and let me tell you I've had to do a lot of unlearning of assumptions, and engrained thinking in that time.

Speaking as someone who appears to be the same age as you and who is also a white, straight cis man, I agree this is very true for that particular time. I remember the casualness of certain slurs that friends and I used back then without realizing the harm they had until much later. Kids learn from what they see and hear, and unless they're specifically told why something is wrong, they'll just repeat those things, especially if they think it makes them sound cool or simply help them to fit in.

Yes there were some prominent gay people that came out in the 80's . . . mostly because of a little thing called the AIDS epidemic, which brought about a whole other level of stigma into the mix. Plus, it's one thing for a grown adult celebrity to come out to the world, it's quite another for a small town kid. Lynching was (and is) still a thing.

As for his friends "knowing"; well you see when it comes to this kind of thing, in this kind of place, in this kind of time, there's "knowing" and then there's "actually openly acknowledging it to literally anyone, including oneself." Two VASTLY different concepts.

That's a nice fantasy, but I rather suspect it would strike any gay people today that were that age in that time as being rather disingenuous.
Remember even Robin is terrified of being outed and labelled as the town pariah. Yeah, some people would be fine with it. Some wouldn't care either way. And some would very much not be OK, to the extent that they could make live orders of magnitude more difficult.

Doesn't matter that in actuality, anyone that messes with Will would have to first go through Hopper, El, and (most terrifyingly) Joyce; the mere fear of being outed was enough to keep even grown men very firmly closeted. Hell, even today there are grown arse adults who are quite understandably still in the closet.

This is not a social issue that got magically solved in the 80's. Though it was the dawn of public social acceptance, it had (and still has) a very long way to go, and the progress is glacial.

Agreed with all of this, but especially the point about how while in reality Will has a strong support group that would defend him physically and emotionally, that's not something that he objectively knows and/or feels because he's so focused on his fear.

On the news front:

The Duffer Brothers say their spin-off idea is "1000% different" from Stranger Things and they specifically call out the ideas of potential adventures of Steve and Dustin, something focused on Eleven, or something with another numbered character are uninteresting to them and that this idea is very different from all of those. They also said they want someone else to write and produce this spin-off, thus allowing someone else to play in the sandbox. All of that makes me more hopeful that this spin-off idea could actually be something worthy of watching.

“The idea, ultimately, is to pass the baton to someone else, someone who’s hopefully really talented and passionate,” Matt Duffer agrees. “Even the idea of Ross and I, say, doing a pilot and leaving it, it just feels silly to me. You really need to be there from the beginning to end. I think we need to find a partner to help us with that.”
​

As for season five, they claim the episodes will be shorter, aside from Return of the King-esque finale with multiple endings. That said, Matt Duffer admits that their plans for season four changed so he says don't necessarily trust him on this one.

And lastly, David Harbour told GQ that he used the actual prop sword Arnold used in Conan the Barbarian.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Yeah, I can't imagine a time skip TO 1989, from where they left things. Vecna just burst their dimension open, & Hawkins is already showing effects of the upsidedown spreading into it (the snow) Shit's going down like right now, from the look of it. There may be a jump down the line to a future date, but they almost have to pick up where they left off.

No one's going to tolerate Max being in a coma for that long, missing all the rest of her high school years, and then (probably) waking up blind/paralyzed to boot.

 

[Mojochi]

And do you think Russia's going to just sit back & let this simmer... or these U.S. military jagoffs? They probably got poor Doc Owens chained up somewhere forcing him to spill his guts about Eleven

Edit: Interesting trivia bit. I was 15 in 1986. (D.O.B. 1971) The same age as Sean Astin (The Goonies) & Henry Thomas (E.T) And... Winona Ryder. This show has literally pinpointed my exact age group to feature both as children, in that era, & as their parents, played by actors of that era.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

No one's going to tolerate Max being in a coma for that long, missing all the rest of her high school years, and then (probably) waking up blind/paralyzed to boot.

And do you think Russia's going to just sit back & let this simmer... or these U.S. military jagoffs? They probably got poor Doc Owens chained up somewhere forcing him to spill his guts about Eleven

Yuuuup, exactly all of this. Like I said in my review, the cliffhanger gave a sense of urgency of the situation that suggests any time jump won't be a big one.