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Spoilers Stranger Things - Season 4

Stranger Things - Season 4, Episode 9 - the good, the bad and unsatisfying:

The Good:

Hopper and his relationships: even if one did not like the Russia subplot, it was less about the mission / threat of returning to the prison (as a potentially lethal encounter), but about the key reunions for Hopper, which reminded viewers how much of a role he played in El and Joyce's lives, despite his tendency to undervalue himself.

Max and Lucas: One might find themselves breathing a sigh of relief that they did not end up as something of interest for a mortician, but Max's condition--from a loss of eyesight, broken limbs and now comatose--was one of the worst events to happen to a main character in this series. I take it El's inability to reach into Max's mind is the result of the coma, as defeating as the outcome of that scene was, I cannot imagine Max will remain in that state (or suffer from any of the effects of Vecna's attack) throughout all of the final season. There's no guarantees or plot points about the final season leaked so far, but Max and Lucas deserve more screen time pointing toward their future, and a dark one.

The Duffers unintentionally laid out the contrast between the teenage couples; there was more believable, heartfelt, genuine connection in the scene of Max & Lucas exchanging notes (ending with Max's illustration indicating her desire to be in a relationship with Lucas again, which he later copied and pinned to her hospital room's wall), and (obviously), Lucas' agony over thinking Max died than any scenes between Mike and El. Whenever Mike has let go of any insecurities and just lets out what he's feeling, it tends to sound like he's simply saying what he believes he should, rather than it sounding like a weighty declaration of true love. Perhaps its Wolfhard's performance, or the way the Duffers often write the character, but by this time in their relationship, Mike and El--despite being the usual "winner" of the Stranger Things "favorite couple" discussion, never feel quite honest or realistic.

Steve: His hopes to win Nancy back were dashed, but as Nancy pointed out (to Jonathan), he's grown over the past couple of years, and he seems to have resigned himself to a life without Nancy. Yeah, yeah, Nancy's distracted conversation with Jonathan would lead some to think she's contemplating breaking up with Byers, but I can see her staying with Jonathan out of loyalty, and ending up in as loveless a relationship as her parents.

Erika: Sweet scene between Lucas and Erika, with his calling her out on attending all of his basketball games, knowing it was not due to the prompting or demands of their parents. Like many sibling, they snip and bicker, but this brief exchange left no doubt that Erika loves her big brother.


The Bad:

Nothing particularly bad, other than Vecna being more of a vehicle for others to react to, instead of his own character having more development and meaning.

The Unsatisfying:

Eddie:
His redemption arc fate was telegraphed, because of course the guy hated and hunted by various townsfolk / has the urge to run from his troubles would finally become some sort of hero, and just so no one had any doubts, Steve telling Eddie and Dusting to not try to be heroes was the loud call to action for someone to do something during this dangerous time. Yes, you knew it would never be Dustin. The problem is that the Duffers have a tendency to write in such an obvious, on-the-nose manner (similar to many of the 80s productions they take inspiration from), that there's no strong or surprising character development--certainly not with Eddie--again, his fate was clear all along. Further, the biggest problem with his "Not running away" stand is that in the grand scheme of things, how much of a functional purpose did it play for the mission? Oh, we had characters say Eddie and Dustin were playing their part in the mission, but when Eddie made his stand, it did not have the impact intended (that, and many of the bats flew right past Eddie, or ignored him), so how effective was his plan?

Will: Tease after tease after tease, the Duffers dragged Will's "revelation" on throughout the season, with a number of teases in E9 alone; it seems like the Duffers were not only aware of the social media discussion about Will and his alleged sexuality, but they played up on it with moments of conveniently interrupted conversations, longing looks, statements that were written to sound if his feeling were about friendship, rather than romantic love, etc. So, after two seasons of fans playing the "Is Will gay?" guessing game, they are still left with no answer whatsoever.

Overall, the fourth season of Stranger Things was not that much of an improvement over season three; both had strong nuggets that should have been larger parts of the plot, while the central conflict--in this case, Vecna--was not as threatening as the imagery would have anyone believe, and if he's returning for the final season, will he be an interesting antagonist from start to finish? Who knows.

Regarding character deaths just about all ST fans are thinking about / forecasting for the final season, I would be content if S5 steered clear of that plot device.

Thanks for typing up my thoughts, saved me the effort :lol:

I disagree on Eddie though - his death was gut wrenching, made even worse by Dustin talking to his uncle about his death. I liked Eddie's story arc. It was not about a functional purpose but a personal choice and final development for him to discover he has worth and had courage, even if being told he's worthless all of his life. He went out a hero for himself, even if logically speaking his death did very little for the overall mission.

Also, second best music number in the entire season. Him shredding Master of Puppets on the roof was just insanely cool and i banged along! :techman:

Overall i didn't like this season finale as much as the others, for me the season 2 finale is still the best and most intense. This one went way too long and during the first hour or so i actually got bored by all the personal moments designed for us to care about the characters. If by the end of season 4 you don't care about each one of them then how did you make it thus far into the show?
I don't know if it's intentional or not but the trope is that whenever a character gets an emotional moment they're destined to die - i don't know if the Duffer's played on this to keep us guessing and in suspense but it sure felt like it. There were fewer deaths than i suspected, i thought at least one of the original season 1 crew would buy it but apparently not.

They even made a bait and switch with Max by using El as a Mary Sue, i don't think i like it that much because Max will return in season 5 ( if you want her dead you kill her, not leave her in limbo).

However i liked the final minute - the Upside Down is invading "our" reality, there's no hiding this and i wonder how our small intrepid group will deal with this now that governments will become involved and it gets all public ( at least a version of it).
 
Also how am I only now just realising that Eddie's uncle is Enoch from Agent's of Shield (as he has always been)?!
Wow, I had no idea that was him.
I really enjoyed both episodes.
Eddie was quickly becoming one of my favorite characters, so I was really hoping he'd make it. But he did get to go out with a great heroic moment.
I'd been wondering all season what exactly the relationship was between the Mind Flayer and One all season, so it was nice to get that all laid out for us. I had expected One to have been behind everything that's been going on so that wasn't a big surprise.
The fact that Brenner did everything just to find him was a surprise though.
For a while there, I really wasn't sure who was going to make when we had everyone in some kind of life or death situation. I have to admit, I actually knowing going in that someone wasn't going to make it, kind of almost made a little more thrilling, as I was trying to figure who wasn't going to make it out of the situation they were in.
So we pretty much got confirmation that Will is in love with Mike, he didn't come out and say it, but everything he did say and do made it pretty clear. I also like how they had Jonathan say he knew and was OK with it, without actually saying he knew and was OK with it.
That last scene was pretty nuts. Next season should be very very interesting.
 
After the big buildup that there was going to be a big bodycount among beloved characters, the deaths were no more than I would have expected based on the first three seasons. Anyone we were emotionally attached to before this season either survived or had an unclear but reversible fate.
 
I'll do you one better than that; I'm reasonably sure it's not just for Mike, it's of Mike, or at least Mike as his Paladin D&D character.
D'oh! I feel quite dumb for not thinking of that!
OK, while I may have been technically correct, if anything I rather underestimated Will. He wasn't just fixated on an infatuation with Mike and how it makes him feel, he was appreciating Mike's value to the whole party. Should have seen that coming since it was the break-up of the party (and a mourning for childhood's end) that was the source for Will's anxiety last season (aka: 8 months ago.) There's clearly a part of Will that still wants to retreat into that innocent happy place (he basically says as much) though I'm not sure how much of that has to do with hiding from trauma, and how much of it is just his fear of growing up and what that means for his sexuality. Either way that kid is in for a rough decade.
After the big buildup that there was going to be a big bodycount among beloved characters, the deaths were no more than I would have expected based on the first three seasons. Anyone we were emotionally attached to before this season either survived or had an unclear but reversible fate.
And this is why I don't pay attention to marketing or fan buzz when I know I'm going to watch the thing anyway. Best to go in with fresh eyes and experience the story on it's own merits.
The jock's death was unsatisfying. I didn't want him to get off that easy: I'd prefer he learned how wrong he was.
Getting everything between his pelvis and ribcage dissolved by an interdimensional portal to a living hellscape is "getting off easy" since when exactly? What, did he need to be set on fire too or something?
 
The Duffers unintentionally laid out the contrast between the teenage couples; there was more believable, heartfelt, genuine connection in the scene of Max & Lucas exchanging notes (ending with Max's illustration indicating her desire to be in a relationship with Lucas again, which he later copied and pinned to her hospital room's wall), and (obviously), Lucas' agony over thinking Max died than any scenes between Mike and El. Whenever Mike has let go of any insecurities and just lets out what he's feeling, it tends to sound like he's simply saying what he believes he should, rather than it sounding like a weighty declaration of true love. Perhaps its Wolfhard's performance, or the way the Duffers often write the character, but by this time in their relationship, Mike and El--despite being the usual "winner" of the Stranger Things "favorite couple" discussion, never feel quite honest or realistic.
Unexpectedly, Eddie and Dustin ended up being the couple that I felt most moved by their connection.

I wonder if they changed course mid-ship with Max or not. It reminded me of Hopper where it felt like they were running down a path and chickened out at the last minute and reversed course.
 
I wonder if they changed course mid-ship with Max or not. It reminded me of Hopper where it felt like they were running down a path and chickened out at the last minute and reversed course.
I just took it as an ESB nod. Everyone got their arses kicked, the bad guys got almost everything they wanted, and Max is essentially frozen in carbonite. If that tracks then that means next season will open with the Jabba's Palace heist.
 
Getting everything between his pelvis and ribcage dissolved by an interdimensional portal to a living hellscape is "getting off easy" since when exactly? What, did he need to be set on fire too or something?

No, as I said in my post I wanted more of an emotional comeuppance than a random gory death.
 
No, as I said in my post I wanted more of an emotional comeuppance than a random gory death.
We got that. It was Lucas's whole "I shouldn't have knocked" speech. That's about all the attention this character rated; he wasn't worth diverting time away from anyone else's story in an already very dense episode. Because again, that story thread wasn't about "bully who gets his comeuppance" it was about Lucas's growth as a person, not just standing up to the dipshit, but accepting himself and embracing his own agency.
 
That was very good, had to watch both ASAP as I wasn't sure when I'd get to see them otherwise, even so had to split the last episode, an hour last night and the rest this morning.

Still felt too much like a chore, way too long and still feels like there are way too many characters and, not that I wanted anyone to die but, only killing the new guy was a cheap trick, but it was still very enjoyable, especially all the elements of the big battle.

Given this was made for a streaming service I don't know why they didn't make 13 regular sized episodes rather than nine overlong ones? You'd think Netflix would have wanted that?

I don't get where the evil army went to though? The pizza van had literally a few minutes head start on the army and isn't exactly incognito, plus now Hawkins has gone to Hell I'm amazed they weren't rounding up anyone with a connection to Eleven?

Can't see Max spending season 5 in a coma.

Anyhoo it's good but hopefully they'll keep more of the party together next season and keep a lid on the movie length episodes. It won't surprise me if there are a few characters we don't see again (Murray for example)
 
Thanks for typing up my thoughts, saved me the effort :lol:

I disagree on Eddie though - his death was gut wrenching, made even worse by Dustin talking to his uncle about his death. I liked Eddie's story arc. It was not about a functional purpose but a personal choice and final development for him to discover he has worth and had courage, even if being told he's worthless all of his life

That kind of story is always telegraphed for it to lack much meaning; there ws no way so much attemtion would be paid to the "loser"/"outsider"--with a direct connection to the main characters--and have him die in that "loser"/"outsider" state. That, and Steve's warning was just confirmation that Eddie would be the one to be a hero, when the situation really did not call for it.

Overall i didn't like this season finale as much as the others, for me the season 2 finale is still the best and most intense. This one went way too long and during the first hour or so i actually got bored by all the personal moments designed for us to care about the characters. If by the end of season 4 you don't care about each one of them then how did you make it thus far into the show?

Yes--the showrunners worked the multiple character moments with greater emotional satisfaction in season two. At this point, only a handful of characters are a draw for me.

They even made a bait and switch with Max by using El as a Mary Sue, i don't think i like it that much because Max will return in season 5 ( if you want her dead you kill her, not leave her in limbo).

Though I doubt the Duffers would go in the following direction, they--ever influenced by King stories--would pull a Cycle of the Werewolf and have Max now confined to a wheelchair (like Marty from the King novella). That would show that there were real consequences for the "kids" as opposed to the random supporting character of the season.


Anyone we were emotionally attached to before this season either survived or had an unclear but reversible fate.

Pretty much, but with the Duffers' promise of deaths not meaning much where the main characters are concerned, some fans will expect, or perhaps demand that the Duffers grow a backbone and kill at least one of the main characters in the final season.

Unexpectedly, Eddie and Dustin ended up being the couple that I felt most moved by their connection.

I wonder if they changed course mid-ship with Max or not. It reminded me of Hopper where it felt like they were running down a path and chickened out at the last minute and reversed course.

I'm not sure, but would the Duffers know how to write the long term effects of death of a teenager on other teens (especially if they are close as the core group is supposed to be)--or anyone?
 
My Max theory:

Eleven can't reach her, not because of the coma, but because of the reason she's in the coma. That is, there's NOTHING to reach. If her death still triggered the portal, then it stands to reason that everything Max was has still been consumed by Vecna/One/Henry. Meaning there is no mind left to inhabit the body that Eleven kept alive with her powers.

However, this sets up an obvious heist plot for next season. Because if everything Max was is now a part of Vecna, but her body still lives, then there is hope to reunite the two. I'm expecting we'll get a season of One using Max's memory/relationships to torment the party until Eleven is able to rip her back out of him and put her back where she belongs.
 
I won't call the final 4 hours underwhelming, because it was actually pretty darned good, & enjoyable, but it did fall short of the hype, so much so as to disservice the show imho. I should & mostly did know better. I'd already gotten a strong feeling this season's story was Brenner's swan song, & Eddie's fate was telegraphed pretty obviously, just in that he'd only been a season 4 character. That's kind of their M.O. (ala Billy) I'd say it played very well though, & landed as possibly the emotional high point of the episode, mainly due to how wonderful Gaten Matarazzo is on this show. He is maybe the underdog low-key heart of the whole show imho

Dangling the notion of killing off anybody from the regular cast undercuts the show's impact imho. I honestly don't think that's the show this ever was. In a nutshell, Hopper fights a Demogorgon. Lucas fights the witch hunter. Nancy/Steve et al. go in on a plan to fight Vecna, & El "arrives" for a penultimate faceoff with Henry, with Max hanging in the balance. All of this is good stuff imho, & frankly the stakes are high enough for this show, as it's been. No need to infuse false hype imho.

I do hope for something more powerful for the grand finale, but this isn't meant to be that. It's the setup for the final stretch, & having Max be the one in the line of fire is a good choice for that effort. It's so assured that she'll be won back, it's not even as cliffy of a cliffhanger as last season was imho.

Things I hope for the last season: I really hope Will returns as an integral aspect to this plot. We need full circle on him. He & Joyce were the most spellbinding aspect of the 1st season & that should be reflected. I do hope the Wheeler family stops being so damn clueless now. All the families of the core group need to be as invested as the Byers, at this point imho.

I also think this season's hype came from a very real place, that in the very end, either Steve or Jonathan might still be sacrificed (It logically makes more sense for it to be Steve... A lot of that dream motor home talk really sets that stage) I hope we DON'T introduce many new focal characters in the last season. There's enough for them to sew up as is.

All in all, it's keeping me wanting to watch, & what more can you ask?
 
I don't get where the evil army went to though? The pizza van had literally a few minutes head start on the army and isn't exactly incognito, plus now Hawkins has gone to Hell I'm amazed they weren't rounding up anyone with a connection to Eleven?

Eleven smashed the helicopter straight onto their jeeps (they only brought 3 or 4 iirc) so they were probably stranded in the desert for a while. Although I still can't explain why the general wouldn't have been on the radio sending other troops out to look for a Surfer Boy Pizza van with a bunch of kids in it the second he realized what happened. It's a bit of a stretch to think they made it 2000 miles in a vehicle that conspicuous without being rediscovered again.
 
I don't get where the evil army went to though? The pizza van had literally a few minutes head start on the army and isn't exactly incognito, plus now Hawkins has gone to Hell I'm amazed they weren't rounding up anyone with a connection to Eleven?

Can't see Max spending season 5 in a coma.

Ell blew up their vehicles when she brought down the helicopter, so they were temporarily stranded. Then, the surfer pizza van wound up at a surfer pizza franchise, perhaps the most effective camoflauge available- I think they just got ahead of the evil army for the rest of S4, effectively. The need to hide Ell again at the end signals that the danger still exists, and the party knows it.

I hope they didn't just leave Paul Reiser's character chained up underground to slowly perish of thirst!

Max will be back- it'll probably be the focus of the earlier part of S5, would be my guess. Although Xerxes82 had a pretty good idea on that as well.
 
I wish that I didn't think somebody was going to die at the end of the season. I figured if Eddie died then somebody else had to as well. I think I read that rumour here, but was there anywhere the Duffers actually said a main character would die? Overall though, it was a satisfying conclusion to the season, with a number of character threads open for the final season. I am still hoping to see Winona Rider in Beetlejuice before the series end.

Did anyone else think it funny that Eddie held up a cassette with a picture of Eddie on the cover when he said "this is real music"? As for the song choice, while Master of Puppets was a cool song to play, the album was apparently released on March 3, 1986--so Eddie learned to play it pretty damned quickly. I would have liked to have heard at least some of whatever his rendition sounded like--there is no way he is good enough to play those solos.

I had been hoping to hear some Husker Du this season, as they would have been a band that Jonathan liked and Candy Apple Grey was released in 1986--but as always, ST had a killer soundtrack this year with a lot of great music beyond just Kate Bush.

 
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