I don't understand the hate Disco gets / still gets.

[Weyoun 251]

I think Trek fans put too much pressure on themselves to like every aspect of the franchise and deal far too often in black and white terms. There's a real sense that fans either have to blindly love a series and refuse to see it's flaws or a blindly hate a series and refuse to see it's positive attributes. I think many fans misunderstand that criticism doesn't equal hate and involves discussing the bad and acknowledging the good of something.

For myself, I gave up on Trek after ENT and Discovery is what brought me back to the franchise. I grew up loving TNG and VOY and now I can barely stand to watch either of them. Having said that, there are still things that i do love and appreciate and like about TNG, VOY and ENT and from time to time I will do rewatches and just skip the episodes I don't like. Lower Decks and Prodigy aren't really for me either and while I like the themes of Picard and how the show has explored that character I personally think it is the weakest of the new shows. But again, I've found things in each show that I really like and would likely make me watch them again at some point.

The days of homogenous, one-size-fits-all trek are done and dusted and each series is now catering for a different audience, which serves to prevent audience burnout and also acknowledges that not every trek fan likes the same thing. Maybe Discovery just isn't your thing and that is ok.

To quote Sweet Peter Rosenberg (or is it Dip?) - highest levs right here. Tops the tiers of maje, a greeeat guy.

Very well written and the key is the final para - something for everyone.

I guess the main issue in the old Venn diagram is that SNW does TOS adjace story telling but without the visuals and LD does visuals but without the seriousness so sadly some will miss out.

Even if it is a minority, theirs voice is equal to mine, yours, etc and hopefully as things go there will be one (maybe Pic 3?) that hits that last metric

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Personally I'm waiting on a series with the authenticity and joy of Lower Decks, the Star Trek adventure of Strange New Worlds, the 'present day' 25th century setting of Picard, the post-Voyager consequences of Prodigy, and the galactic politics of Discovery.

 

[100Pic]

For me, I’m a huge old Trek fan who also enjoys Nu Trek. Quite simply, I hold the two iterations in slightly different places in my head/heart. There is plenty of room for both.

As someone else on BBS said, Star Trek is a multiverse.

 

[ELCHawk]

TNG and DS9 are my all time favorite shows of any genre. But I can admit both shows (especially TNG) had some terrible episodes. I mean has Discovery had a Sub Rosa? Is Discovery as good as those two shows? No, but it is more consistent. Their best episodes are nowhere near as good as TNG's and DS9's best episodes. But Discovery's worst episodes are nowhere as bad as TNG's and DS9's worst episodes. I apologize for the thread called "To the Haters" but I never have seen as much hatred toward a show. And there is a population of "fans" who just go out of their way to tell everyone how much they hate it. Is Discovery perfect? No. Is Discovery the best Trek? No. For example, eventhough I enjoy it it is 5th of the NuTrek shows for me. I do have it above Voyager and Enterprise. It is still better than 90 percent of shows currently airing today.

 

[fireproof78]

TNG and DS9 are my all time favorite shows of any genre. But I can admit both shows (especially TNG) had some terrible episodes. I mean has Discovery had a Sub Rosa? Is Discovery as good as those two shows? No, but it is more consistent. Their best episodes are nowhere near as good as TNG's and DS9's best episodes. But Discovery's worst episodes are nowhere as bad as TNG's and DS9's worst episodes. I apologize for the thread called "To the Haters" but I never have seen as much hatred toward a show. And there is a population of "fans" who just go out of their way to tell everyone how much they hate it. Is Discovery perfect? No. Is Discovery the best Trek? No. For example, eventhough I enjoy it it is 5th of the NuTrek shows for me. I do have it above Voyager and Enterprise. It is still better than 90 percent of shows currently airing today.

To me, the only way Discovery is "the worst" is if older Star Trek is put on such an unreasonable pedestal that nothing else can touch it. Like, I don't expect any of newer Trek to be "the best" because, well, nothing to me is "the best." Old Trek had it's ups and downs. Newer Trek has its ups and downs. It doesn't feel much differently, besides looking way more modern and futuristic.

 

[Lord Garth]

TNG and DS9 are my all time favorite shows of any genre. But I can admit both shows (especially TNG) had some terrible episodes. I mean has Discovery had a Sub Rosa? Is Discovery as good as those two shows? No, but it is more consistent. Their best episodes are nowhere near as good as TNG's and DS9's best episodes. But Discovery's worst episodes are nowhere as bad as TNG's and DS9's worst episodes. I apologize for the thread called "To the Haters" but I never have seen as much hatred toward a show. And there is a population of "fans" who just go out of their way to tell everyone how much they hate it. Is Discovery perfect? No. Is Discovery the best Trek? No. For example, eventhough I enjoy it it is 5th of the NuTrek shows for me. I do have it above Voyager and Enterprise. It is still better than 90 percent of shows currently airing today.

No worries.

Though I will be the one to say Discovery is my favorite Star Trek series. I've moved passed TOS through VOY, I was never a fan of ENT to begin with, and I still prefer DSC over PIC and SNW, in that order.

Those people who are saying "SNW is the best Star Trek since TOS!", they're experiencing and saying what I experienced and said five years ago about DSC. Eventually, some of them will come right out and say SNW is their favorite Star Trek series.

EDITED TO ADD: I think people (in general) should give themselves permission to say something newer is their favorite if they really think it. What if Paramount+ makes a Star Trek series that really grabs them in the tuture, and they'd like to call it their favorite, but they're worried they can't call something that isn't TOS, TNG, or DS9 their favorite? DS9, the most recent of those, premiered in 1993. We shouldn't be permanently tethered to shows that are in the neighborhood of 30 years old or more.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

People are way too trigger happy in praising SNW as the best Star Trek show ever. It’s good for sure, but it’s barely through it’s first season.

I think it’s solid Trek, but at the cost of it actually taking any risks. It feels like a show that’s been specifically designed not to make waves and I just can’t fully get behind something like that. I refer to it (not pejoratively) as “Your Grandad’s Star Trek”. No boats rocked. No apple carts overturned. It’s just a bit generic for me.

I’d take DSC over it in a heartbeat, though I know I’m in the minority there.

 

[fireproof78]

People are way too trigger happy in praising SNW as the best Star Trek show ever. It’s good for sure, but it’s barely through it’s first season.

I think it’s solid Trek, but at the cost of it actually taking any risks. It feels like a show that’s been specifically designed not to make waves and I just can’t fully get behind something like that. I refer to it (not pejoratively) as “Your Grandad’s Star Trek”. No boats rocked. No apple carts overturned. It’s just a bit generic for me.

I’d take DSC over it in a heartbeat, though I know I’m in the minority there.

It's just proof that comfortable, safe and familiar is preferred in general. I know I'm in the minority for taking issue with what is described as "comfort food entertainment," but it seems always like that's all Star Trek is expected to be. DSC was uncomfortable out the gate and I found that interesting. SNW is basically touching comfortable feels and that works for many. I'm way more skeptical of that.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Is SNW really comfortable, safe and familiar though? It's episodic at a time where series are generally serialised. It's cheerful and goofy when series are supposed to be dark and serious. It radically alters the look of the beloved Enterprise. It recasts several main characters from TOS.

Discovery and Picard are the series going for the touching comfortable feels, SWN is daring and weird. To the point where I'm struggling to get into it to be honest. I'm going to need more time to get used to its uncanny valley reinterpretation of the TOS aesthetic, assuming that I ever can.

 

[fireproof78]

It's cheerful and goofy when series are supposed to be dark and serious.

Did you watch TOS?

 

[Lord Garth]

Discovery and Picard are the series going for the touching comfortable feels, SWN is daring and weird.

This is utterly false. I'll go so far as to say I think you're completely wrong. The people who love SNW but don't like DSC and PIC are going on and on about how SNW "feels like Star Trek!" SNW has done a great job of recapturing the feel of Old School Star Trek. DSC and PIC don't, but that isn't their aim. In fact, in subsequent seasons, DSC and PIC had to tone down how different they were just to make old-schoolers happy.

 

[cooleddie74]

In what world is DSC "touching" and "comfortable"? No matter what one thinks of that series that isn't even remotely what DSC is.

 

[Danja]

People are way too trigger happy in praising SNW as the best Star Trek show ever. It’s good for sure, but it’s barely through it’s first season.

I think it’s solid Trek, but at the cost of it actually taking any risks. It feels like a show that’s been specifically designed not to make waves and I just can’t fully get behind something like that. I refer to it (not pejoratively) as “Your Grandad’s Star Trek”. No boats rocked. No apple carts overturned. It’s just a bit generic for me.

I’d take DSC over it in a heartbeat, though I know I’m in the minority there.

I see SNW as a pacifier for the people who are trashing Disco for supposedly being too "woke" (Translation: There's a black woman in the Captain's chair).

Now that SNW has done gone

Spoiler

given Nurse Chapel a spine,

they're having a cow.

(Moral of the Story: Be careful what you wish for. Seriously, guys ... met any nurses lately?)

In all seriousness, a lot of the hate Disco gets is rooted in race and gender (There are people who can't abide anyone other than a cishet white male sitting in the Captain's chair. They probably trashed Janeway when Voyager was on.)

 

[Agony_Boothb]

They probably trashed Janeway when Voyager was on

They absolutely did. There were many comments about how voyager got lost because women are bad at reading maps, or how Janeway was experiencing her time of the month or was crazy and moody for some of the decision she made.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Did you watch TOS?

I mean series in 2022. Or even 2002, considering how Enterprise went.

In what world is DSC "touching" and "comfortable"? No matter what one thinks of that series that isn't even remotely what DSC is.

I guess I'm mostly thinking about season 4, where a group of friends who have been together for four years are the most emotionally considerate allies imaginable and one of them has an incredibly gentle romance. There's one character all year who ever says anything remotely hurtful and he's a villain, the crew never kills anyone, and it's so driven by feelings that even the puzzle at the end they have to solve has emotions as a core element. I suppose on the other side it's got characters dealing with traumatic events, but so does Picard and Strange New Worlds.

Meanwhile Strange New Worlds to me is like returning home and finding that your family is acting strange, rooms aren't quite where they should be, and your childhood photos are full of people and places you don't recognise. I'm sure it'll get comfortable eventually, but I'm not in my comfort zone yet!

 

[fireproof78]

Seriously, guys ... met any nurses lately?)

My mom's a nurse and the toughest person I know.

Meanwhile Strange New Worlds to me is like returning home and finding that your family is acting strange, rooms aren't quite where they should be, and your childhood photos are full of people and places you don't recognise. I'm sure it'll get comfortable eventually, but I'm not in my comfort zone yet!

Yeah, I don't see that. Discovery is way more uncomfortable, though it has been safer in the last year.

I guess that's to each their own type thing.

 

[StarMan]

I'm going to go out on a limb here. After watching the latest SNW and taking some time to mull it over, the NuTrek I've enjoyed the most overall is .. Star Trek Discovery S1 - up until the Mirror arc went south.

I think Discovery was on to something, but they moved further away from it's original concept once season 2 rolled around and the writers took a fresh stab at the story after wrapping up what Fuller had left them.

I haven't disliked Discovery from the get-go; I think I've been particularly harsh because there was a lot of potential at the outset.

It's a pity, because I'm starting to think they've overcorrected with SNW.

 

[ananta]

This is me playing devil’s advocate, and I may be wrong, but I sometimes feel the current creators took far too much of the criticism to heart and, in their desperation to course correct, have essentially Flandersised Star Trek. I still enjoy DSC but it has lost its teeth as the creators have attempted to force it into a more conventional, “safer” type of Trek.

I’m enjoying SNW too, but it might represent the pinnacle of this. In some ways it feels the safest Trek series we’ve ever had. I feel the creators are unwilling to set their foot outside of a certain line now. A subversive series, like DS9 (and let’s face it, it was) would not get made now because the producers just wouldn’t want to face the backlash and criticism I know DS9 got for much of its run.

 

[EnderAKH]

I recently went back and watched a few episodes of season 1, and was shocked at how much conflict there was compared to now. NO ONE liked or trusted Burnham, she had direct conflict with Saru and Detmer, Landry was surly to everyone, no one trusted Lorca completely, Stamets seemed to outright hate Lorca. I miss that, a little bit of edge in the crew. Made them feel human. Sometimes you work with people you don't like, it happens. I miss that harder edge.

 

[fireproof78]

This is me playing devil’s advocate, and I may be wrong, but I sometimes feel the current creators took far too much of the criticism to heart and, in their desperation to course correct, have essentially Flandersised Star Trek. I still enjoy DSC but it has lost its teeth as the creators have attempted to force it into a more conventional, “safer” type of Trek.

I’m enjoying SNW too, but it might represent the pinnacle of this. In some ways it feels the safest Trek series we’ve ever had. I feel the creators are unwilling to set their foot outside of a certain line now. A subversive series, like DS9 (and let’s face it, it was) would not get made now because the producers just wouldn’t want to face the backlash and criticism I know DS9 got for much of its run.

I feel much the same way. They have been smacked around and treated like shit enough that they will not step out of the safe and secure. It isn't just being told "You made a bad product." That is at least changeable. They were told "You ruined Star Trek." "You destroyed something great!" "You don't get it, don't understand it, don't respect it. No one has every done this before."

The hatred was weaponized in a very personal way and they shrunk back from it. Why wouldn't they?