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Spoilers Differences between season 1 and 2

Dr Helen Noel

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Let's discuss the changes from season 1 to season 2. As ThreeEdgedSword summed it up, "it felt like the writers didn't care for any of the characters, the friendships between them, but also the themes and world-building of season 1".

Llywela's excellent post in the Rios thread does a great breakdown of what happened to Rios specifically:
Then again, I don't get any sense that the S2 showrunners understood Rios as a character at all. They did nothing, absolutely nothing all season to show that he felt he didn't fit in, as 2.10 claimed. I mean, he didn't leave Starfleet because he "didn't fit in". He left because Starfleet betrayed him and he was suffering from PTSD. But even after the institution he had admired since he was a little boy let him down, he was still "Starfleet to the core" - and then when we saw him commanding the Stargazer in 2.01 he seemed perfectly at home and had a great rapport with his new crew.

He doesn't spend his time around holos wearing his face because he "doesn't fit in with other people". Quite the opposite! It's clear from the word go that even though he tries to be grumpy and misanthropic and keep everyone at arm's length, he loves people and he lets them into his heart pretty much right away. He's not annoyed by Agnes bugging him, he's intrigued. He's unfailingly polite to Picard, he catches Agnes up when she can't follow the discussion, he geeks out over Seven, he is unfailingly gentle and kind to Soji despite being triggered into a PTSD episode by his first sight of her, even when she tried to hijack his ship. He has holos with his face because he is a people person. Because he gives his heart away quickly, freely, and completely. It's a (probably subconscious) way to protect himself from being hurt again - and a way to protect others from himself, since he blames himself for Vandermeer's death. It has nothing to do with not fitting in. And not having a blood family doesn't mean he had no meaningful connections with anyone in 2401. He spent the whole of season one building warm, strong bonds with the ragtag crew that Picard assembled aboard La Sirena - if Picard could call what was left of that team a family in 2.10, so could Rios.

The writers may have been able to sell us "he doesn't fit in so this is a good thing for him" if they'd worked for it, spent the season laying groundwork. But for that, they first would have had to understand who he was in season 1, what his damage was, and what his relationship to the people around him was. They could have used his scene on the Stargazer to show he's uncomfortable with his return to Starfleet, instead of showing him perfectly at home and at ease. They could have used his conversations with Teresa to tease out any regrets he has about returning to the service, instead of giving her lots of cute speeches while he simply sat there making heart eyes. They could have used his interactions with Raffi and Seven to show that their friendship had grown more distant as they each got lost in their romantic relationship - instead, we saw the opposite, he and Raffi were as close as ever in the scant few scenes they had together, while a more newly developed friendship with Seven was also very clearly established through the season (I really loved that dynamic - I loved that both Raffi and Seven had a strong friendship with Rios that was completely separate from their relationship with each other). They could have done so many things to make it seem like Rios doesn't fit in and is looking for meaning or somewhere he belongs. Instead they give Agnes an easily-missed half-sentence in the middle of a tense action scene and had Rios rave about "real" food and cigars, as if he couldn't easily get those in the 25th century if he wanted to.

(Also, because it bugs me: yes, he reads paper books. But Raffi has paper books on her desk, too, and Picard has a whole library. It's clearly not that uncommon. And the record player was Vandermeer's, not Rios's. I agree that he likes antiques and it's a good character trait of his. But it's not like it's a defining aspect of his personality.)

So yeah. I understand the writers just needed to get rid of him because they wanted to clear the deck for TNG season 8, and romantic love trumps all else, right? And leaving him in 2024 allowed them to put Seven in the captain's chair in his place, which they clearly wanted to do. So finding him a feisty Latina woman to fall in love with made sense to them, and as long as we establish that they have a ton of romantic chemistry, that means we can neglect all other aspects of his character, right? We are making it very clear that nobody should ever watch season 1 again, because it was dumb and doesn't matter, so if we just say he never fit in anywhere and he doesn't belong anywhere because holograms, then the people are gonna go "yeah, that makes sense, that's what his character was about", right?

Sheesh.

I know it is a Star Trek tradition for one of the crewmates to suddenly be ready to give up their current life for someone they fell in love with a few days ago. But they don't usually go through with it, and this feels like the worst possible example of that. You really gonna walk away from your communist utopia after receiving a crash course in just how thoroughly your rights will be violated if you stay? You sure you want that, Rios?

I mean, to have him choose to stay in 2024 without any mention at all of the imminent onset of World War III - and to air that episode on the same day that SNW aired a scene describing the horrors of that conflict in terrible, brutal detail. And to have nobody even mention it as an issue. They could have fixed it. Give him a line where he says, “Yeah, I’ve seen how terrible it is. I know what's coming. And that’s why I need to stay here. Because I know it can get better, eventually. So I can give these people hope. It’ll be hard, but it’s the right thing to do.” Instead, nothing. Guinan tells us after the fact that he and Teresa did a lot of good and helped a lot of people, but the scenario really, desperately needed to show us that Rios knew up front what he was getting himself into and was prepared for it, rather than just going with the cutesy, "I'm in love and this is my new family, I'm home," statement.

Not to mention that scene of Picard calling Seven, Raffi and Elnor his family, laughing happily together just moments after Guinan had described Rios's premature death in a bar brawl, of all things. 'Died as he lived' my foot. S2 tried to peg Rios as an impulsive type, but in S1 this was the man who talked everyone else down from an armed standoff and got the team home safely when even the great Picard himself had failed - how is being murdered in a bar brawl 'dying as he lived' for that guy?

None of it works for his character even a little bit, and it also doesn't work for the themes of the story, which are all about NOT getting stuck in the past, and it's an insult to the character, his deeply meaningful relationships to all the other characters around him, and it's frankly an insult to Santiago Cabrera. Writing him out of the show this unceremoniously with an alleged "happy ending" that reduces his character to a shadow of his former self and closes all doors for future projects so there will have to be tons of loopholes to contend with if anyone wants to bring his character back - it's a complete farce, start to finish.

It just makes me so furious how badly they butchered this layered, complex character and gave him basically zero motivation for ending the story the way he did beyond "romantic love is more important than friendship, found family, duty, community, and the prospect of horrific war, racism, and decades upon decades of suffering".

Bah humbug. Glad I've got that off my chest! I could probably rant a bit more about the deeply flawed structure of the show and how Elnor and Soji deserved better, too - not to mention Agnes, but this is a Rios thread so I'll shut up now.

What other changes did you notice? What do you think caused them? Do you think it's possible for them to be undone in a future spin-off or in betacanon?
 
Perhaps one of the strangest things about season 2 is that the parts not shown by the time jump would have been more interesting that what we did see. Season 2 seemed to suffer from both too much plot and not enough. Several plot lines were started, such as the resemblance between Tallin and Laris, but never fully explained while we also had episodes where nothing seemed to happen, or the plot was stretched too thin (so many young Picard flashbacks).

We skipped over Elnor being the first Romulan in the academy; Elnor and Picard's relationship; Raffi, Picard and Rios, regaining their posts in Starfleet; Picard adjusting to his android body; Soji accepting that she too is an android; the death of Zhaban; Agnes' arrest and trial; the removal of the galactic treaty and the re-acceptance of androids; Raffi accepting her son was not in her life; Rios becoming uncomfortable on The Stargazer; Agnes and Rios' relationship; Seven and Raffi's relationship; the holos being combined; Starfleet after Commodore Oh was exposed... I'm sure I'm missing many more.

Behind the scenes we know that season 1 was led by Michael Chabon and Akiva Goldsman. Chabon departed in season 2 but still served as executive producer. In his place Terry Matalas was brought on for the first few episodes but then moved to season 3. Goldsman seems to be responsible for Picard's childhood plotline:
I’m so very glad to hear that.
@AkivaGoldsman
deserves these kudos though. The psychological and emotional parallels to time travel were beautifully crafted by him… as one would expect from the writer of A Beautiful Mind.
https://twitter.com/TerryMatalas/status/1519838201904476165

So what happened? Were all the character complexities and themes from season 1 Chabon's work? Or someone else who didn't work on season 2? The first two episodes were written by Matalas and seemed to correct many of the issues fans had with season 1, though the time jump skipping over plot points was included. Once Goldsman took over, the characters began to suffer and most of the character exploration seemed to go to Picard. It's as though Goldsman didn't seem to understand season 1 himself.
 
Rios staying in the 21st century remains something that a lot of fans find inexplicable. So muich so that popular headcanons like the idea he's doing so to make sure that the doctor and her son survive World War 3 have popped up as well as the idea he was suffering from a concussion or that he wanted Picard to ask him to come with him. However, I think that actually does him a disservice.

Rios was betrayed by Starfleet when his captain murdered two innocent women then committed suicide. He was willing to give it another shot due to Picard restoring his faith in the organization but there's a very good argument that he never was going to fit in as the captain of the Stargazer.

I say this as someone who does largely think the Picard cast is one of the most likable ones in science fiction and that they could easily have done more seasons with the cast as is. We were only getting to know our heroes and while Patrick Stewart was getting a bit long in the tooth, they could have easily continued with Seven taking the lead.

So what happened? Were all the character complexities and themes from season 1 Chabon's work? Or someone else who didn't work on season 2? The first two episodes were written by Matalas and seemed to correct many of the issues fans had with season 1, though the time jump skipping over plot points was included. Once Goldsman took over, the characters began to suffer and most of the character exploration seemed to go to Picard. It's as though Goldsman didn't seem to understand season 1 himself.

The problem with "correcting" a show is that it may be that many people don't think it needs correction.
 
Rios staying in the 21st century remains something that a lot of fans find inexplicable. So muich so that popular headcanons like the idea he's doing so to make sure that the doctor and her son survive World War 3 have popped up as well as the idea he was suffering from a concussion or that he wanted Picard to ask him to come with him. However, I think that actually does him a disservice.

Rios was betrayed by Starfleet when his captain murdered two innocent women then committed suicide. He was willing to give it another shot due to Picard restoring his faith in the organization but there's a very good argument that he never was going to fit in as the captain of the Stargazer.
But the thing is, he did return to Starfleet, once he knew the truth about what happened all those years ago. He did seem perfectly at home and at ease in command of Stargazer. If the show wants us to believe that 'he never was going to fit in as the captain of the Stargazer' then it needed to show us that. It didn't. Not even once. Not once all season did Rios give any indication that he regretted his decision to return to Starfleet. Not once did he suggest that he felt any unease about having command of a starship crew, or that he felt he didn't fit in. Not once, until that final conversation threw it in out of nowhere. It was too little too late, the groundwork was not laid - and there was plenty of opportunity to do so. An entire season, in fact. No mention either of the imminent onset of World War III that he was going to have to live through.

No, it was just a badly written storyline, one which tossed his entire S1 characterisation out of the window completely, purely to fulfil an external plot requirement imposed on the character by the producers, irrevocably burning a character brimming with potential, just because they didn't want to use him in S3 and liked the idea of getting Seven into the captain's chair in his place. How short-sighted. What a waste.

The problem with "correcting" a show is that it may be that many people don't think it needs correction.
But those that do feel it needs correction also have a right to discuss the reasons why. I mean, don't get me wrong. I actually think that every episode this season was perfectly watchable and entertaining. But I also think that the whole is considerably less than the sum of its parts, and that some of the decisions made for the characters were disappointing in the extreme and weakened the show as a whole. I can see enormous potential in the set-up we were shown in 2.01 and feel tremendous regret that the season not only failed to live up to that potential, but removed much of the source of that potential from the table permanently. I think it is unfortunate that short-term gains were prioritised over long-term investment. Looking back over the season as a whole, I wish that different decisions had been made, and I firmly believe that the show would be much stronger if they had. And I don't think there's any harm in my saying so. It's not like my statement is going to change anything, but it does make me feel better to get it off my chest!
 
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Given the reactions I saw to the end of Season 1 I think each character going off on their separate adventures makes sense. Star Trek has always demonstrated characters going on their own path when they find a need Starfleet cannot fulfill.

"Put aside logic. Do what feels right."

Godspeed, Ro Laren, Wesley Crusher, Worf, Rios, and others no doubt.
 
We skipped over Elnor being the first Romulan in the academy; Elnor and Picard's relationship; Raffi, Picard and Rios, regaining their posts in Starfleet; Picard adjusting to his android body; Soji accepting that she too is an android; the death of Zhaban; Agnes' arrest and trial; the removal of the galactic treaty and the re-acceptance of androids; Raffi accepting her son was not in her life; Rios becoming uncomfortable on The Stargazer; Agnes and Rios' relationship; Seven and Raffi's relationship; the holos being combined; Starfleet after Commodore Oh was exposed... I'm sure I'm missing many more.

I dunno, this feels like a whole entire other season of softer character building.

It also is the kind of thing that can be handled in a montage. You could argue a lot of this like, "How did Doctor McCoy end up on a planet of refugees, why is Spock seeking Kolinar, and why is Kirk an admiral?" And so on.
 
Thing is, the Picard cast WERE NEVER A CREW. It was JL hiring a ship and rounding up a bunch of misfits to go on one last mission before he died. I hated the S1 end scene with them all happy, a crew going on to the next adventure because really they should have gone their seperate ways there and then. It didn't ring true.

S2 bringing Picard, Rios and Raffi back to Starfleet and them all being happy didn't ring true after how they were treated by the organisation, but I liked that they had at least gone seperate ways before the current crisis. The season 2 people apparently never knew what to do with Elnor (S1 showrunner wanted him to explore his sexuality in S2, iirc) so they just offed him for 90% of it. S2 feels like a current day show that just happens to feature Star Trek characters, and in the case of Adam Soong and his daughter, in new roles.

And now they're almost all gone so they can do TNG season 8 instead of Picard season 3, which is exactly what they promised Picard WASN'T going to be at the outset. Oof.

And this from someone who enjoyed S2 more than many.
 
Thing is, the Picard cast WERE NEVER A CREW. It was JL hiring a ship and rounding up a bunch of misfits to go on one last mission before he died. I hated the S1 end scene with them all happy, a crew going on to the next adventure because really they should have gone their seperate ways there and then. It didn't ring true.

I mean, wasn't one of the main points that they became a bunch of close comrades and friends DESPITE the fact Picard hired them as disposable cannon fodder?
 
After season 2 I think of Picard more as 3 separate miniseries starring Patrick Stewart rather than a show with its own well developed cast.
 
When Picard talked to Riker in Nopenthe, lamenting his situation, he said, "I had a crew." To some degree, that was visible in the season's finale. In the season 2 debut, that crew had already fallen apart. With the exception of Soji and Jurati, no one seemed to be working together, and they had in some cases distanced themselves from one another. Other than Q giving some of them consciousness of the changes that took place in the new reality, there was nothing that held them together. The subsequent episodes merely established the reasons why they would not coalesce into a crew again: Rios falling in love with a woman, Jurati falling in love with being a Borg, Soji not being important enough to be in the loop. It's all rather depressing.
 
I mean, wasn't one of the main points that they became a bunch of close comrades and friends DESPITE the fact Picard hired them as disposable cannon fodder?
I mean, yes and no. On the one hand yes they became friends. On the other hand, they also still had careers and journeys that took them on separate paths. I've experienced it in my life a lot. And it doesn't strike me as unrealistic in this instance either.
 
See, what you are talking about here is not at all what I am talking about. I am not saying 'they should have stayed together as a crew' (although that is definitely a story that could have been told, based on where S1 left them). I'm saying 'since S2 decided to throw most of the same characters back together again, it should have developed them more as individuals and explored the dynamics and bonds between them, instead of tossing their established development and dynamics out of the window in favour of a contrived plot arc', and the storytelling as a whole would have been much stronger. PIC is a show about Picard, but it isn't a one-man show. Even shows intensely focused around eponymous heroes are strengthened by a strong, integrated, well developed supporting cast who are not treated as entirely disposable. The supporting cast should not feel like makeweights, it weakens the entire show if they are.
 
See, what you are talking about here is not at all what I am talking about. I am not saying 'they should have stayed together as a crew' (although that is definitely a story that could have been told, based on where S1 left them). I'm saying 'since S2 decided to throw most of the same characters back together again, it should have developed them more as individuals and explored the dynamics and bonds between them, instead of tossing their established development and dynamics out of the window in favour of a contrived plot arc', and the storytelling as a whole would have been much stronger. PIC is a show about Picard, but it isn't a one-man show. Even shows intensely focused around eponymous heroes are strengthened by a strong, integrated, well developed supporting cast who are not treated as entirely disposable. The supporting cast should not feel like makeweights, it weakens the entire show if they are.
I will take your word for it.
 
The only real difference between S1 & S2 is that S1 built a universe that made sense and had stories to follow up on. S2 basically ignored that and tried to re-imagine S1.

Perhaps one of the strangest things about season 2 is that the parts not shown by the time jump would have been more interesting that what we did see. Season 2 seemed to suffer from both too much plot and not enough. Several plot lines were started, such as the resemblance between Tallin and Laris, but never fully explained while we also had episodes where nothing seemed to happen, or the plot was stretched too thin (so many young Picard flashbacks).

We skipped over Elnor being the first Romulan in the academy; Elnor and Picard's relationship; Raffi, Picard and Rios, regaining their posts in Starfleet; Picard adjusting to his android body; Soji accepting that she too is an android; the death of Zhaban; Agnes' arrest and trial; the removal of the galactic treaty and the re-acceptance of androids; Raffi accepting her son was not in her life; Rios becoming uncomfortable on The Stargazer; Agnes and Rios' relationship; Seven and Raffi's relationship; the holos being combined; Starfleet after Commodore Oh was exposed... I'm sure I'm missing many more.

This is what Short Treks is for. The problem is that is not seen in that light. It was created to mainly to focus on DIS, and promote/introduce some new creative talents. While some of these might be revisited in S3 at some point, a number of these could been ST episodes and then receive a callback in a future Discovery episode.

  • Elnor being the first Romulan in the academy (half-true since there was Simon Tarsus and maybe a few other before him, but Elnor would be the first to be open about his Romulan ancestry in the Academy)
  • Elnor and Picard's relationship
  • Raffi, Picard and Rios, regaining their posts in Starfleet
  • Picard adjusting to his android body
  • Soji accepting that she too is an android
  • the death of Zhaban
  • Agnes' arrest and trial (was briefly covered in the S2 premiere)
  • the removal of the galactic treaty and the re-acceptance of androids
  • Raffi accepting her son was not in her life
  • Rios becoming uncomfortable on The Stargazer
  • Agnes and Rios' relationship (something that was in the process of being covered in S2 before being abruptly dropped)
  • Seven and Raffi's relationship (will probably be tackled in a future spinoff)
  • the holos being combined
  • Starfleet after Commodore Oh was exposed
 
I was amused by the way they pretty much treated Picard being a synth as a joke. I think they'd rather we just forget about that bit.

At this point it feels like the whole series is just a way to tie off TNG, with the new characters just a means to an end. The first season was a bunch of stuff leading to Picard saying goodbye to Data, the second was a bunch of stuff leading to Picard saying goodbye to Q. They're not even bothering with the artifice for the third season.

I'm disappointed, but I'll just take the episodes - which are generally very enjoyable - as they are and try not to think much about the overall picture.

Though they could greatly amuse me by treating the TNG crew like they have the new characters.
"Where's Worf?"
"Oh, he died in a fight with an Orion over his tooth sharpener."
"LOL, classic Worf."
 
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