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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x07 - "Monsters"

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Barging in here after a delay of a week just to say this episode made me able to relate to Picard in a way I haven't before. Back then as a kid, I looked up to him as a role model, the confident and rational captain who always knew how to convince people through his god-like speechifying skills, but as I grew up, I began gravitating away from him as I've gradually started seeing him as stubborn, emotionally repressed, unwilling to open up to people, arrogant and prone to claiming the moral high ground to shame his opponents into compliance. Naturally, I was very pleased when the last season called him out on these exact flaws (see how his first meeting with Clancy or his theatrics of tearing down the "Romulans only" sign ended) and I was happy to see him not only emerge but figuratively and literally resurrected as a healthier, wiser version of his old self in the end.

But in this episode, seeing how he deals (or doesn't deal) with his traumatic memories, I have seen many things intimately familiar to me. I absolutely loved the dual framing device of him in the therapy session, talking about the traumatic memory on the surface, and the imagination-colored representation of that memory below, a representation of his conscious and subconscious. It painted a very visceral picture in me: Picard needed a lot of prodding from the therapist to even realize this particular memory was what he was here to talk about. Tallinn arrived in his subconscious to bring him out, but he wasn't there. His thoughts are up there, in his conscious mind, talking about the traumatic memory, but he's completely unable to tap into that memory and its trauma and actually relive it himself until Tallinn literally brings his childhood self to the door and brings him out to the fore. I kept thinking how nice it would be to have my own Romulan lady do it for me, because just like Picard, I have forgotten how to do that and how to listen to that scared and lonely little girl down there a long time ago. Ahem. I have a feeling it's turned a bit too personal. Anyway, the revelation about Picard's aloofness made a whole lot of sense: he's keeping his emotional distance from others, but how could he start allowing them in when hasn't even stopped keeping his own self at an arm's length first?

EDIT: I also greatly appreciated the apparent (and very accurate, I think) disconnect between his conscious thoughts about his memory and how his childhood self experienced it in his subconscious. His father telling him basically outside infomation about his mother sounded like a representation of what he knows about his mother's illness as an adult, that he knows that his mother was sick and had an episode where she endangered her kid and was in such a bad state that she needed to be locked up, probably temporarily until the doctor arrived. But the emotions connected to the memory, how his childhood self experienced it, and the emotional wounds caused by it, speak of his mother as this fantasy heroine who protected him from the dangers lurking in their home, and his father as the monster who locked up the mother who wanted to defend him. And this disconnect just makes it all the more difficult to tap into your subconscious and relive the trauma, because the way it imprinted upon your soul is just so drastically different from how your conscious rationalizations interpret it in the present.
 
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^ This is basically what I’ve been thinking but not saying because I didn’t quite know how to put things into words (emotional things are difficult for me, I very much share this trait with Jean-Luc) - that the entire scene with him exploring his deepest memories and what got him “stuck” and what happened only works to its full extent if you are REALLY invested in Jean-Luc as a character and have formed some kind of “relationship” with him. It loses its momentum and even starts to bore people if he’s just another character or a character you casually like.

I doubt I’ll ever be able to watch the whole thing, it would not be the first time where I have to admit defeat and say “sorry I can’t do this, I love him too much to endure him going through this much pain, it’s having too much of an impact on me” (I can’t watch “Chain Of Command, Part II” for this very same reason and I VERY MUCH struggle with “Best Of Both Worlds” and First Contact also).

Maybe this is the one flaw in Sir Patrick’s choices regarding Jean-Luc in PIC… to assume that Jean-Luc is as important to everyone as he is to Sir Patrick and that the impact of all of this is felt as strongly as HE feels it (and those who view Jean-Luc as more than just a TV character, be that a father figure or… something… err… else) and that everyone knows Jean-Luc as intimately and will therefore be able to see a lot of parallels to TNG, where others will be like “huh this isn’t the Picard I know from TNG” - it is, it’s just that TNG!JLP needs to be looked at without the captain’s mask AND then examined thoroughly as a character, and a lot of people aren’t as invested in him that they want to do that (which is totally okay, I’m just making an observation). :)
 
Ah come on now I doubt many heterosexual men would be saying no to a Laris, Beverley relationship. Even a man of Picard's resolve is gonna "boldly go there"
Meh, not all of us are like that.

How so? I was saying that a fan fiction would be written about Kirk pursuing a relationship with Edith outside of the outcome of that episode.

Rios is doing his own thing.
Well, Rios is getting involved with a woman of the past and seems to have thrown all caution to the wind.
 
We love you anyway :adore:

This is really sweet of you to say, but I think the more realistic opinion is probably “oh not that dude again with his Jean-Luc love, wtf… and will he EVER stop banging on about P-Stew or” :lol:

And I’m trying to be brief, I swear, I could write ESSAYS about Jean-Luc and what makes him tick but I honestly try not to, I know most people aren’t as interested in him as I am
 
This is really sweet of you to say, but I think the more realistic opinion is probably “oh not that dude again with his Jean-Luc love, wtf… and will he EVER stop banging on about P-Stew or” :lol:

And I’m trying to be brief, I swear, I could write ESSAYS about Jean-Luc and what makes him tick but I honestly try not to, I know most people aren’t as interested in him as I am

PS is extremely interesting and talented. It's only a shame we had such limited exposure to him in the US pre-TNG.
 
This was easily the worst Picard episode of all and among the worst in all Star Trek. Flashback scenes in general are always tedious and useless so an entire episode of them was unbearable. What's with the ridiculous and long monster and dungeon scenes? Is this a kids' show or a halloween special? It makes no sense; this whole backstory could be told without the tedium. Anyone remember TNG 'Masks'? This is on par with that utter trash.
 
He's staying in the past.

Actually, considering how bad things are about to get, Rios should think about heading back to the 70s to live with his new missus, although if his lifespan is almost 200 years... Rios might want to ruminate about starting his second life in the 1870s.
 
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Sometimes fans are to blame and are the problem. We're not sacrosanct nor should our wants and wishes always be at the top of the priority list.

Always molding your art to what's popular with a certain subset isn't a good idea.
 
I haven't watched any of the season yet, but I've kept my ears to the ground. Was this episode really that bad? I've heard 'worst episode ever" thrown around, but honestly it would have to be pretty fucking bad and fight it's way through quite a crowd of episodes to achieve that...
 
No, it was nowhere near the worst episode of Trek ever. It's not even the worst episode of Picard, ever. It is a fundamentally bad bit of storytelling, however, listlessly adrift in an eddy of rather stagnant narrative that's taking up weeks in the middle of an aimless, nearly shapeless short season of a show that rises for brief moments above "okay," largely on the strength of great performances by the supporting cast.

Stewart himself has become something of a known and consistent quantity - accomplished, highly skilled, not unpredictable or likely to create suspense through his choices. I would hold Anthony Hopkins as an example of a far more interesting Elder British Thespian, but honestly to do so is an abrupt reminder of just how good we currently have it as Trek fans, that one of the series features - has long featured - an actor who deserves to be mentioned in nearly the same breath with Sir Tony.
 
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...I've heard 'worst episode ever" thrown around, but honestly it would have to be pretty fucking bad and fight it's way through quite a crowd of episodes to achieve that...

Oh yes it fought like a champ and emerged victorious. This series is short, they could be making some legendary sci-fi with this opportunity but instead they give us this worthless, boring garbage.
 
This wasn't even bad by PIC standards. I'll watch this anyday over last week's episode or the Season 1 finale.

The Season 1 finale is about as bad as CBS Trek gets.
 
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