Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x05 - "Fly Me to the Moon"

[hxclespaulplayer]

He's done it before.

Why don't any of the post-ENT cast have a boner for Archer? It's always Kirk this, Kirk that... maybe he was the first to explore uncharted space of the 23rd century but Archer was the first captain of the first deep-space Starfleet ship, period. We was responsible for the Vulcans being what they are today and so many other things that define the Trekverse.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

So, it's really bugging me that Picard didn't flinch when not-Laris pulls out her clearly Romulan PADD to show him Renee's counselling session (complete with Romulan writing, Romulan signature triangular shape, and Romulan green shading). At this point, Picard has been dealing with Romulans and their tech since 2368, or 33 years. He went to Romulus with Spock. He spent much time working with Romulans on the evacuation plans.

He thought not-Laris was Laris. But then says she isn't. Just a coincidence she happened to be intimately familiar with Romulan tech?

 

[fireproof78]

Why don't any of the post-ENT cast have a boner for Archer? It's always Kirk this, Kirk that... maybe he was the first to explore uncharted space of the 23rd century but Archer was the first captain of the first deep-space Starfleet ship, period. We was responsible for the Vulcans being what they are today and so many other things that define the Trekverse.

Archer is bland.

 

[CommanderTrip]

Maybe. I was very struck by the language she used with Agnes - pure unadulturated gaslighting, the kind of manipulative language emotional abusers use to entrap their victims. "I am the only person who understands you. I am the only person who appreciates you. I am all you've got, you will be completely alone without me." All designed to drive a wedge between the victim and their support system. Playing on Agnes's deepest, darkest fears and self-doubt - as seen in the season premiere, in which she regaled that flirty Deltan with tales of her woeful love life. It ties in with Picard's own arc about never being willing to truly open himself up to the possibility of love. Agnes seems to struggle in much the same way - when she bickered with Rios in 2.02 about their breakup, he made that point, that she couldn't bring herself to open up to a flesh and blood human, preferring the company of synthetic beings and research. It can be a self-perpetuating thing - fearing being alone yet pushing people away to pre-empt what feels like inevitable rejection. We have seen that Agnes has good friends who trust and believe in her, yet that self-doubt remains, undermining her confidence and her relationships, and that is what the Queen has been playing on, recognising it as her way in. Where they go from here will be intriguing to see.

I am very interested to see where they take this, and sincerely hope its not an anticlimactic resolution that leaves us speculating on what could have been. I'm sure I am reading into something where there is nothing, but its fun to speculate.

It would be satisfying to me, plot-wise, if the queen were gaslighting/manipulating Jurati in an attempt to make her join the borg willingly and accomplish that which she desired from Locutus and Data, and to a degree, Seven of Nine. She manipulated Data to a similar extent in FC, playing on his desires to become part of the human condition as well as his fear of never being part of the human family.

This manipulation lasted a mere fractions of a second as Data self-professed at the end of FC, but the Queen has demonstrated her ability to dangle the carrot. It seems there is a precedent for both a direct approach to assimilation, and a more emotionally manipulative approach, depending on the individual(s).

 

[Sci]

I always thought that the younger crew was meant to make Picard being old an easier pill to swallow for the woke generation. "The Picard show! With a young, hip main cast!" It's very nu-trrekky.

What on Earth would a young cast have to do with "woke-ness?"

Also the cast really isn't that young. Allison Pill is 36; Isa Briones is 23; Evan Evagora is 25; Michelle Hurd is 55; Santiago Cabrera is 43; Harry Treadaway is 37; and Orla Brady is 61.

So Cabrera is just 3 years younger than Stewart was when TNG premiered, Hurd is almost 10 years older than Stewart was in TNG S1, and Brady is almost 15 years older than Stewart was in TNG S1.

(And that, of course, is to say nothing of returning stars Jeri Ryan [54], Brent Spiner [73], Whoopi Goldberg [66], and John de Lancie [74].)

So I really don't think the cast is all that young. You've got two people in their 20s, two people in their 30s, one person in his 40s, two people in their 50s, two people in their 60s, two people in their 70s, and the star in his 80s.

I could see an argument that having a cast that's so diverse in age is "woke" just because you've literally got cast members in almost every decade of adult life, but that's as far as I'd go with that. And I don't even think that was intentional -- I think it just ended up working out that way because so much of PIC as a narrative is about Jean-Luc looking back on his life and building relationships as a result of his age and coming to terms with his mortality.

Why don't any of the post-ENT cast have a boner for Archer?

I mean, from an in-universe perspective, Archer and the NX-01 would probably be seen as more important since Archer is basically the Federation's George Washington. But the real reason, of course, is that the audience still loves William Shatner's Kirk, whereas Scott Bakula's Archer was an absolute wet blanket.

 

[ananta]

Star Trek has always had small universe syndrome, but this season has taken it to new extremes. There’s Data!! Soji! Guinan! Laris! An ancestor of Picard’s! It does strain credulity, but…much stronger episode than the previous couple. Beautifully paced and I love the way it’s starting to heat up. The similarities with FIRST CONTACT are increasing, however. In both cases, the future has to be saved by making sure a particular space flight takes place. I’m certain there will be more twists down the road, though.

 

[jackoverfull]

But my point is you need a good B/C story if the secondary characters aren't plot critical. We didn't really get that with Rios/Seven/Raffi. I didn't actively mind Rios's, but the story would have been actively better if Seven and Raffi planned and undertook their whole rescue off-camera, which is a big structural issue.

my point is that it was extremely similar to the Rios story. Character goes on a side mission, gets separated by the others, captured and hospitalised, other characters have to rescue him. It’s just a reshuffle of the same story, but with more social commentary, more character exploration and, I guess, less “fun”.

Why don't any of the post-ENT cast have a boner for Archer? It's always Kirk this, Kirk that... maybe he was the first to explore uncharted space of the 23rd century but Archer was the first captain of the first deep-space Starfleet ship, period. We was responsible for the Vulcans being what they are today and so many other things that define the Trekverse.

there is a new Archer shipyard in Discovery. But when time travel is concerned Kirk is much more famous (Archer did plenty, but it never ended up in his logs, so nobody knows about it).

So, it's really bugging me that Picard didn't flinch when not-Laris pulls out her clearly Romulan PADD to show him Renee's counselling session (complete with Romulan writing, Romulan signature triangular shape, and Romulan green shading). At this point, Picard has been dealing with Romulans and their tech since 2368, or 33 years. He went to Romulus with Spock. He spent much time working with Romulans on the evacuation plans.

He thought not-Laris was Laris. But then says she isn't. Just a coincidence she happened to be intimately familiar with Romulan tech?

That was really odd, yes. I hope there will be an explanation and it’s not a very inappropriate case of reused props.

What on Earth would a young cast have to do with "woke-ness?"

you expect this kind of talk to make sense?

 

[eschaton]

my point is that it was extremely similar to the Rios story. Character goes on a side mission, gets separated by the others, captured and hospitalised, other characters have to rescue him. It’s just a reshuffle of the same story, but with more social commentary, more character exploration and, I guess, less “fun”.

To be clear, I didn't mind Rios's story per se. I minded the "rescue" by Raffi/Seven. It would have worked better if Rios somehow found his own way out, and Seven and Raffi were doing...anything else at all. Or maybe just not on camera at all.

 

[Trekker4747]

Scott Bakula's Archer was an absolute wet blanket.

He saw a gazelle once!

 

[cooleddie74]

Archer's a pretty big deal in DSC and not just in the 23rd century setting. The biggest Spacedock in the 32nd century Federation is named after him.

 

[marillion]

He saw a gazelle once!

But also, more realistically in my mind, Kirk is a better reference to the casual viewer who may not have watched much, or any, of Enterprise.

 

[Mr Awe]

You know, it's starting to get a bit annoying to me that aside from Jurati, the supporting crew of La Sirena really have no reason to be in the story. Or at least haven't since Episode 2.

Rios, Raffi, and Seven pretty clearly just had their parts written over the last three episodes to give them something to do before the gang got back together. There was no intriguing story or notable character arc. I didn't mind Rios' story really, but it didn't add anything. And Raffi/Seven was just awful.

Agreed. Lots of wheel spinning to use up screen time. Seems like the real season is about to beginning now that we know about Renee, Adam Soong, his daughter, and what Q is up to in this time period.

I do think the doctor that Rios met will be back. I'm sure they'll need a doctor for something.

 

[Sci]

The similarities with FIRST CONTACT are increasing, however. In both cases, the future has to be saved by making sure a particular space flight takes place. I’m certain there will be more twists down the road, though.

I mean, "Tomorrow is Yesterday" did it first, so really Star Trek: First Contact was copying them.

you expect this kind of talk to make sense?

Touche! Though it was kind of cool to realize just how disparate the cast's ages all are. There's someone in this show from almost every age of adult life.

 

[Mr Awe]

Oh yeah. Gary 7 did the job and stayed around for some time.
Not saying a supervisor couldnt do the job.. Had a former boss that took regular shifts but still had to do the supervisor stuff (usually paperwork) .. Laris2 just seems to be on the 1 assignment.. Who is she supervising? It's not a "name" they already established there are Agents. She should be supervising other agents. And if there are other agents under her, where are they? Why didn't she call on them or the home office for help instead of the 5 stoodges? ?

NotLaris was completely underwhelming. She had one job . . . and was failing at it. Q was undermining history as she watched. And he wasn't even using his special powers. She was so "unseen" that she was ineffective. She resisted getting involved even when it was obviously necessary.

Just not cut from the same cloth as Gary Seven.

 

[Photoman15]

So, it's really bugging me that Picard didn't flinch when not-Laris pulls out her clearly Romulan PADD to show him Renee's counselling session (complete with Romulan writing, Romulan signature triangular shape, and Romulan green shading). At this point, Picard has been dealing with Romulans and their tech since 2368, or 33 years. He went to Romulus with Spock. He spent much time working with Romulans on the evacuation plans.

He thought not-Laris was Laris. But then says she isn't. Just a coincidence she happened to be intimately familiar with Romulan tech?

The Supervisor may not know (in 2024) that she will have to take on the role of a Romulan 400 years in the future to protect Jean Luc Picard. But she's multi-trained.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Just noticed a potential Easter egg. I believe that the stock footage of a NASA launch that Renee Picard was watching at the gala was the same stock footage of a NASA launch used in Assignment Earth.

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

Did anyone else catch Orla Brady’s tweet yesterday?

Yes, it’s almost defintiely just a cute joke, but she’s for sure teasing Tallinn = Isis, which ‪‪I do find interesting.

 

[G. H. B. BRAEME]

Well my argument would be that this season is based on time travel, and then I would continue to prove that I am correct by posting an animated video of the said sequence which is even more convincing as evidence than the screenshot:

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I would then deliver the final blow by saying that the red animation in the Doctor Who theme turns Borg green like it has been assimilated.

This proves my theory in my mind.

Therefore I would win the debate!

Come on Doctor Who fans! Come at me!

Sorry, even if I like watching Doctor Who, I'm not what we can call a fan. That being said, the red graphics shown on the picture and the one appearing in the animated video in the last episode of Picard are very similar, indeed.
Is it a coincidence or an assumed reference?

In any rate, I like the Timofnine's idea about Picard's 2nd season being based on time travel, Iit would give a main theme to the season, even if it doesn't last until the finale.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well if Laris2 turns into a cat or other animal, I'll be giving a thumbs up

 

[WarpFactorZ]

The Supervisor may not know (in 2024) that she will have to take on the role of a Romulan 400 years in the future to protect Jean Luc Picard. But she's multi-trained.

I've said elsewhere that she will become Laris in the future. But why does she have 24th century Romulan tech in her apartment? She doesn't like time travel. It could have been any other piece of equipment, but they went out of their way to show us it was Romulan. And Picard didn't say a thing about it, even after repeatedly thinking she was Laris (who is a, ahem, Romulan).

I'm going to guess that she's a shapeshifter (maybe a Chameloid?) and assumed Laris' form because she plucked the image from his mind somehow. But that still doesn't explain the overt Romulan-isms in the scene.