Small Bridges and Battle bridges

[JJohnson]

I had a few questions while looking through some bridge CGI art online.

1. Why's the Battle bridge so small? Was something damaged on the Enterprise movie set, or was it completely intentional to be smaller?

2. Why are other bridges so small (in-universe)? I know they redressed the battle bridge to act as other ships' bridges, but why would other starships have such small bridges if they're the command centers of the ship? Or could we 'pretend' that the bridge is really bigger, and acknowledge it's a TV show budget preventing the bridge from being shown in its actual size?

 

[Oddish]

Other bridges need ship's operations, astrometrics, a couple of science stations, and quite a few other things.

The Battle Bridge needs shields and weapons and maybe sensors. And preferably a lot of armor around it. It would make sense to minimize the size.

 

[Orphalesion]

Other bridges need ship's operations, astrometrics, a couple of science stations, and quite a few other things.

The Battle Bridge needs shields and weapons and maybe sensors. And preferably a lot of armor around it. It would make sense to minimize the size.

It also had a communications station which was (for some reason) manned by Troi in the pilot.

Which, really, is also something you'd realistically want on a battle bridge for communications with your enemies, and allies (if any)

 

[Oddish]

Very true.

 

[Ottens]

It's not that small!

The TNG battle bridge was a redress of the movie Enterprise bridge, and only a little smaller.

In terms of square meters, even the Enterprise-D main bridge wasn't that much bigger than the movie Enterprise bridge. It looks bigger, because it has brighter colors, more open space and a higher ceiling.

The battle bridge probably looks smaller because of the camera angles and darker colors. That might have been deliberate, to give it more of a submarine-like, claustrophobic look?

You can find more info about the design of the battle bridge on my website.

I also recommend Star Trek Stages History, where you can compare the floor plans of the sets.

 

[Ottens]

Sorry for the double post, but you also asked why are bridges in general not that big?

That was deliberate. Andrew Probert, who designed the Ent-D bridge and battle bridge, told me in 2005 that Gene Roddenberry instructed him that under normal conditions, the ship would be operated by just a Conn, Ops and command officer: 3 people. This was to suggest to viewers how advanced technology had become. Only in emergencies would more people report to the bridge.

 

[Legate Duhmar]

I had a few questions while looking through some bridge CGI art online.

1. Why's the Battle bridge so small? Was something damaged on the Enterprise movie set, or was it completely intentional to be smaller?

2. Why are other bridges so small (in-universe)? I know they redressed the battle bridge to act as other ships' bridges, but why would other starships have such small bridges if they're the command centers of the ship? Or could we 'pretend' that the bridge is really bigger, and acknowledge it's a TV show budget preventing the bridge from being shown in its actual size?

1. The battle bridge is not that small but I believe it would be smaller than the main bridge because it's a back up system so it taking up less space is a more efficient design and use of space. Also it only has controls for primary operations as no one is going to be doing stellar cartography or exobiological research on a "battle bridge" designed almost exclusively for combat situations.

2. Other bridges on the show are smaller for obvious budgetary reasons and whatever set space was dedicated to showing other ships bridges was understandably smaller than the main set that was the main bridge.

 

[Mojochi]

Other bridges need ship's operations, astrometrics, a couple of science stations, and quite a few other things.

The Battle Bridge needs shields and weapons and maybe sensors. And preferably a lot of armor around it. It would make sense to minimize the size.

Strategically as well. You wouldn't want the battle command center to be a big space in an exposed area anyhow. Small, hidden, well armored, less reachable & harder to impact

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

1. The battle bridge is not that small but I believe it would be smaller than the main bridge because it's a back up system so it taking up less space is a more efficient design and use of space. Also it only has controls for primary operations as no one is going to be doing stellar cartography or exobiological research on a "battle bridge" designed almost exclusively for combat situations.

2. Other bridges on the show are smaller for obvious budgetary reasons and whatever set space was dedicated to showing other ships bridges was understandably smaller than the main set that was the main bridge.

In TOS, the auxiliary control room is used for other things while the main bridge is still usable, apparently. In "And the Children Shall Lead," it seems to be used as an engineering operations center (unlike this being done in the engineering set most of the time), and in "The Way to Eden," it is specifically used for navigation while the bridge is navigating the ship. Other episodes show it manned while the bridge is doing something. Since the auxiliary control room is roughly the same idea as the Battle Bridge, it seems that it could be manned for something while the ship is not separated.

Perhaps navigation problems are its function during that time.

While I'm at it, the Astrometrics room on Voyager looks very much like a bridge, just without a Captain's chair. Voyager supposedly cannot separate. Seven of Nine has engineering, science and navigation-like duties and sometimes does her own thing when the other characters are using the Bridge, so maybe that room is the equivalent to the Battle Bridge on Voyager.

As a side note regarding the article, I don't see how it could have been that the original movie bridge was destroyed. The changes to the rear of the bridge that would seems to be a new set are present in "The measure of a Man," and then changes are made for various ships in various episodes. On the DVD for Star Trek V, Harve Bennett tells reporters in 1989 or 1988 that this is a new bridge for that movie, but it does not seem to be same one from the previous movies, and the bridge from the earlier movies, with its modifications, is apparently seen throughout TNG.

One comments suggests the fore part was damaged, perhaps, but the smaller (that is to say more ovoid) fore section is seen in "Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Battle," before the supposed damage in the article. This does seem plausible, though.

I could see the movie bridge being altered for the TNG pilot to accommodate a ready room in the same space, and then not being able to restore its prior appearance.

The Stargazer could have been a Consitution-class, but since it is not, the smaller bridge makes sens with the different configuration of ship. Since the Constellation-class has a larger saucer but not engineering section, a different bridge layout, especially one that can therefore fit more things in the saucer, like a ready-room near the Bridge, works well.

I see the source listed mentioning the destruction of the original set, but based on preponderance of sources like interviews from blu-rays and so on mentioning the continued use of the original bridge set, there must be some confusion here.

EDIT: I wanted to add I still think it is an amazing website

 

[Legate Duhmar]

In TOS, the auxiliary control room is used for other things while the main bridge is still usable, apparently. In "And the Children Shall Lead," it seems to be used as an engineering operations center (unlike this being done in the engineering set most of the time), and in "The Way to Eden," it is specifically used for navigation while the bridge is navigating the ship. Other episodes show it manned while the bridge is doing something. Since the auxiliary control room is roughly the same idea as the Battle Bridge, it seems that it could be manned for something while the ship is not separated.

Perhaps navigation problems are its function during that time.

While I'm at it, the Astrometrics room on Voyager looks very much like a bridge, just without a Captain's chair. Voyager supposedly cannot separate. Seven of Nine has engineering, science and navigation-like duties and sometimes does her own thing when the other characters are using the Bridge, so maybe that room is the equivalent to the Battle Bridge on Voyager.

Whether its called "auxiliary control" "battle bridge" or "emergency c&c" one would think every large Federation starship would have an area of the ship reserved to take immediate control of all systems in the event the main bridge is disabled or lost. If there is no backup control center then it would make the most sense to design a ship with a bridge buried in the internals of the ship, the last place to take damage, rather than as a "cherry on top". Overall I thought bridges looked good on the show and a lot of thought went into the layout of the command centers especially the Enterprise and other Starfleet vessels.

 

[Ottens]

@Mres_was_framed!, there was apparently a weather accident during production of Star Trek V, when they temporarily moved the Ent-A bridge set (which had also served, in redressed form, as the Ent-D battle bridge in the first seasons of TNG) to the Paramount parking lot in order to free up space on the sound stage for a new shuttlebay set.

Text from Memory Alpha, which is in turn based on a DVD commentary by Mike Okuda:

sometime after the filming of "The Offspring" had finished but before filming of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country began, the venerable set was virtually destroyed in a freak weather event while being temporarily stored on the outside studio parking lot in order to make room for other sets. Little could be salvaged save for some parts such as the two turbolifts and the bridge platforms.

I've always been intrigued by what "freak weather event" means. Was there a hurricane? Did the sets get struck by lightning? I have no idea.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Wasn't the movie bridge set heavily damaged by being left outside in the rain, or something along those lines? They supposedly salvaged the back for the battle bridge/every guest bridge in all of TNG.

Size-wise, that's just budget. Maybe we were supposed to imagine those "back wall" bridges really curved all the way around like in the classic Trek movies.

 

[Ottens]

I guess rain counts as "freak weather" in LA.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

I guess rain counts as "freak weather" in LA.

Our SoCal rainfall is usually limited to October through March. Anything in between is very unusual. Storing stuff outdoors during the Summer is SOP.

 

[JJohnson]

In TOS, the auxiliary control room is used for other things while the main bridge is still usable, apparently. In "And the Children Shall Lead," it seems to be used as an engineering operations center (unlike this being done in the engineering set most of the time), and in "The Way to Eden," it is specifically used for navigation while the bridge is navigating the ship. Other episodes show it manned while the bridge is doing something. Since the auxiliary control room is roughly the same idea as the Battle Bridge, it seems that it could be manned for something while the ship is not separated.

Perhaps navigation problems are its function during that time.

While I'm at it, the Astrometrics room on Voyager looks very much like a bridge, just without a Captain's chair. Voyager supposedly cannot separate. Seven of Nine has engineering, science and navigation-like duties and sometimes does her own thing when the other characters are using the Bridge, so maybe that room is the equivalent to the Battle Bridge on Voyager.

As a side note regarding the article, I don't see how it could have been that the original movie bridge was destroyed. The changes to the rear of the bridge that would seems to be a new set are present in "The measure of a Man," and then changes are made for various ships in various episodes. On the DVD for Star Trek V, Harve Bennett tells reporters in 1989 or 1988 that this is a new bridge for that movie, but it does not seem to be same one from the previous movies, and the bridge from the earlier movies, with its modifications, is apparently seen throughout TNG.

One comments suggests the fore part was damaged, perhaps, but the smaller (that is to say more ovoid) fore section is seen in "Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Battle," before the supposed damage in the article. This does seem plausible, though.

I could see the movie bridge being altered for the TNG pilot to accommodate a ready room in the same space, and then not being able to restore its prior appearance.

The Stargazer could have been a Consitution-class, but since it is not, the smaller bridge makes sens with the different configuration of ship. Since the Constellation-class has a larger saucer but not engineering section, a different bridge layout, especially one that can therefore fit more things in the saucer, like a ready-room near the Bridge, works well.

I see the source listed mentioning the destruction of the original set, but based on preponderance of sources like interviews from blu-rays and so on mentioning the continued use of the original bridge set, there must be some confusion here.

EDIT: I wanted to add I still think it is an amazing website

For some reason I seem to remember an article suggesting damage to the movie bridge of some kind or another as a reason for moving the viewer closer and giving a more oval than circle shape. In-universe, I understand it being smaller for armor or functioning more for combat without the exploration extras.

Then, other bridges are redresses of that bridge. Notably, Constellation, Nebula, and other ships redress the battle bridge. I know the budgetary reasons, just not an in-universe reason why a ship design from the 2270s would have such a small bridge, or a sister ship of the Galaxy having such a small bridge if it has the exact same saucer that is in no way smaller than the Galaxy. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[PhotoBoy]

So the bridge in TFF was just a revamp of the original TMP bridge set? I always thought it was a new build because it looked much bigger! I’ve been incorrectly thinking for years that they found the bridge damaged when they went to use it for TVH (hence re-painting the section of it we see on screen) and then built a whole new one for TFF.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

@Mres_was_framed!, there was apparently a weather accident during production of Star Trek V, when they temporarily moved the Ent-A bridge set (which had also served, in redressed form, as the Ent-D battle bridge in the first seasons of TNG) to the Paramount parking lot in order to free up space on the sound stage for a new shuttlebay set.

Text from Memory Alpha, which is in turn based on a DVD commentary by Mike Okuda:



I've always been intrigued by what "freak weather event" means. Was there a hurricane? Did the sets get struck by lightning? I have no idea.

This is making more sense now. In my mind, since the somewhat different back walls like those seen in "Booby Trap," "Peak Performance," and others, were already being used, the viewer would have no way to know it was not literally the exact same set, since doors and some other obvious parts were saved.

I wonder if those parts that Okuda meant had gotten "destroyed" were really just the actual outer consoles/walls with the distinctive movie-era style. If "Peak Performance" is taken as an example, they weren't using them anyway, having started using new walls for a bit "newer" ships.

I'm getting the impression, then, that if they had not insisted on a new bridge for Star Trek V, it might have been indoors and not been ruined.

But there is that line in "Inside Star Trek" where Justman and Sollow make some claim about cats destroying the movie bridge set. It seemed weird and out-of-place in a book about the original series, and they were comparing it to the TOS sets being given away or broken up after the show ended. Maybe feral cats got into it and ruined it before it then got rained on? I'm not sure how that would be a "weather accident," but depending on how the insurance claim had to filed...

 

[Norad]

@Mres_was_framed! Well, you probably thought that "It's raining cats and dogs!" is just an idiom, but we in California just call that a "freak weather event"!

 

[publiusr]

@Mres_was_framed!, there was apparently a weather accident during production of Star Trek V…
I've always been intrigued by what "freak weather event" means. Was there a hurricane? Did the sets get struck by lightning? I have no idea.

January 17-18 of 1988 produced some of the largest waves seen…April 20th was a bit rough…as was December 16 but that would have been when shooting was winding down if not done—but I think it may have been the May 1, 1988 Orlando Sentinel story on how winds destroyed 150 feet of the Redondo Beach pier that stranded 1,300 folks on Catalina that reveals the culprit.

Memory Alpha calls it a windstorm.
I’m thinking large dust devil/small landspout.

Twenty-Nine palms saw one in the 90s and a vortex picked up a blue port-o-John and made it fly in a spiral like a Tardis. Rare cold air funnels touch down now and then.

There are even things called “gustnadoes” that can curl at the edge of a gust front…or wake low.

Or maybe the Santa Anas caused vortex shedding on the Lee side of a large structure—like a studio?—that was able to send foam core flying.