"Redemption, Part II": What we can learn from Data

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What are the chances Hobson was keeping up with android development in general...much less Data's own personal growth?

Data was one of a kind. There WAS no android development in general.

And I stand by my opinion of Hobson. He wasn't being insubordinate or really even bigoted.

I mean, it's not like Data was just another Federation race...like I said, he was one of a kind. Hobson can't be expected to know anything about androids, because before Data came along, there were none. For all that the average John Q. Public knows, android = robot. Hobson had a very realistic fear that an android would behave in a coldly logical manner, without compassion.

(Perhaps Hobson should indeed have checked up on Data's Starfleet record. But how much time did Hobson have before he even knew Data would be assigned as his CO?)

After the mission was over, I'm sure he and Data came to an understanding. Perhaps Data even came to respect Hobson for speaking his mind. Isn't that what an XO is supposed to do? I hope Data didn't put a rip in Hobson's record or anything like that, because IMHO, Hobson didn't deserve one. Data told him to suck it up, and he did.

 

[Ragitsu]

And I stand by my opinion of Hobson. He wasn't being ... bigoted.

---

I hope Data didn't put a rip in Hobson's record or anything like that, because IMHO, Hobson didn't deserve one.

I don't know...

HOBSON: Frankly, sir, I don't believe in your ability to command this ship. You're a fellow officer and I respect that, but no one would suggest that a Klingon would make a good ship's counsellor or that a Berellian could be an engineer. They're just not suited for those positions. By the same token, I don't think an android is a good choice to be captain.

It seems that he has some interesting beliefs concerning Klingons and Berellians. Are his views limited to Klingons, Berellians and - apparently - androids in general? Maybe. However, I'd want to be sure a member of my organization wasn't closing off their mind to potential recruits because of prejudice.

I mean, it's not like Data was just another Federation race...like I said, he was one of a kind. Hobson can't be expected to know anything about androids, because before Data came along, there were none. For all that the average John Q. Public knows, android = robot. Hobson had a very realistic fear that an android would behave in a coldly logical manner, without compassion.

This is one of those moments that requires you to suspend your disbelief for the sake of the story; in the centuries the Federation has been around, they haven't learned about "artificial lifeforms" comparable to androids from any species they've encountered?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

in the centuries the Federation has been around, they haven't learned about "artificial lifeforms" comparable to androids from any species they've encountered?

Probably not.

The Federation may have known about the concept of androids in general, but certainly not ones that serve in the fleet.

 

[Mojochi]

It seems that he has some interesting beliefs concerning Klingons and Berellians. Are his views limited to Klingons, Berellians and - apparently - androids in general? Maybe. However, I'd want to be sure a member of my organization wasn't closing off their mind to potential recruits because of prejudice.

Exactly. Dude has some very segregated notions of intelligent beings. I don't even buy that a Klingon, predisposed to doing it, couldn't be a ship's counselor. Even Worf himself, in his own way, has helped counsel his subordinates now & then... Just like Nog or Dr. Reyga don't have to be a stereotype of a cutthroat greedy opportunist, & Spock himself can be seen saying that logic is only the beginning of wisdom, basically admitting it is not an end unto itself

Data is more than just an android. He's something of a celebrity, & I can't accept that anyone in Starfleet wouldn't be savvy to that by the time of these episodes. They've saved Earth. He's 3rd on the flagship. Laws have been established about him. He's probably one of the most famous officers in the fleet, more so even than Worf, who'd also be known everywhere... including among the Klingons who "do not speak his name"

This guy just doesn't truly respect him for what he is. He outright says it. "I respect you as an officer"? Horse hockey. You can't respect someone as a colleague, if you don't respect him as an equal being. He's a bigot without question, & the episode makes no bones about that imho

 

[Ragitsu]

Data is more than just an android. He's something of a celebrity, & I can't accept that anyone in Starfleet wouldn't be savvy to that by the time of these episodes. They've saved Earth. He's 3rd on the flagship. Laws have been established about him. He's probably one of the most famous officers in the fleet, more so even than Worf, who'd also be known everywhere... including among the Klingons who "do not speak his name"

I do wonder if Hobson knew anything about Data's posting. You'd figure even a semi-intelligent human would recognize the accomplishment of being third-in-command on his Federation's flagship. Maybe he thought Data was a "diversity hire"?

This guy just doesn't truly respect him for what he is. He outright says it. "I respect you as an officer"? Horse hockey. You can't respect someone as a colleague, if you don't respect him as an equal being. He's a bigot without question, & the episode makes no bones about that imho

This is tangentially related and yet...that line struck me as being similar to "I have no problems with X (ethnicity), but I wouldn't let one of them marry my son/daughter."

 

[Mojochi]

Maybe he thought Data was a "diversity hire"?

That thought just cracked me up. I might not go so far as that... maybe, but he probably did think it was preferential treatment, even though in truth, while Data & Hobson might be the same rank, Data more than likely has had more time in rank, & probably more time in command.

I can't really base it in anything, but I do feel there's some underlying spite going on though. After all, when Data (Holding the same rank) comes aboard, Hobson is already somewhat in command, and (unlike Data) serves in the command track, likely posted to the Sutherland itself, possibly as highly posted as its 1st or 2nd officer even... or not at all, who knows?

Nevertheless, as there's no higher ranking officer available, it's fair to assume that were it not for Data being posted there, by Picard, who he serves under, (presumed preferential treatment) Hobson would've been captaining there instead. From his perspective, Data has interloped to displaced him, & usurped an opportunity for a credit to his record. That's the kind of thing that if someone had some latent bigotry in them, it might surface this way.

Oh noes... Data is Jellico

 

[Leviathan]

Office Politics: The Constant Frontier

 

[JesterFace]

We learned from Data that sometimes it's smarter to make up your own mind rather than just follow orders without thinking things.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I do feel there's some underlying spite going on though. After all, when Data (Holding the same rank) comes aboard, Hobson is already somewhat in command, and (unlike Data) serves in the command track, likely posted to the Sutherland itself, possibly as highly posted as its 1st or 2nd officer even... or not at all, who knows?

Nevertheless, as there's no higher ranking officer available, it's fair to assume that were it not for Data being posted there, by Picard, who he serves under, (presumed preferential treatment) Hobson would've been captaining there instead. From his perspective, Data has interloped to displaced him, & usurped an opportunity for a credit to his record. That's the kind of thing that if someone had some latent bigotry in them, it might surface this way.

We actually don't know if Hobson was already serving aboard the Sutherland when Data came aboard. For all we know, Hobson was posted there at the last minute just like Data was. Starfleet could have been grabbing officers from wherever they could find. There's just no way to know.

And while Hobson certainly had issues with having an android as his CO, I honestly don't think jealousy was one of them.

 

[Mojochi]

We actually don't know if Hobson was already serving aboard the Sutherland when Data came aboard. For all we know, Hobson was posted there at the last minute just like Data was. Starfleet could have been grabbing officers from wherever they could find. There's just no way to know.

And while Hobson certainly had issues with having an android as his CO, I honestly don't think jealousy was one of them.

Correct. We know nothing of Hobson prior. I was just hypothesizing a bit about their assignments, based on his behavior when Data shows up. When Data walks in, Hobson is already acting commander... Or at least acting like the commander lol. That doesn't necessarily have to mean anything, but it reads to me like he's running the place, or at least thinks he is.

Ultimately though, telling someone I respect you as a fellow officer, but not as a commanding officer isn't an option. That respect requires that you might find yourself serving under them, if they rise up the ranks or postings above you. Respect for a fellow officer demands a respect for their authority, where ever they are in the chain of command.

Basically, Hobson is saying Data should never outrank him, that he, in all situations, ought to be in the superior position between them. Data holds position that he doesn't think Data should hold, & thinks he's more deserving of that authority, but doesn't have it = Jealousy.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

orrect. We know nothing of Hobson prior. I was just hypothesizing a bit about their assignments, based on his behavior when Data shows up. When Data walks in, Hobson is already acting commander... Or at least acting like the commander lol. That doesn't necessarily have to mean anything, but it reads to me like he's running the place, or at least thinks he is.

Yeah, but we've seen "acting like the commander" from other characters like Shelby at some points in BoBW and arguably Ro in Disaster, despite neither character actually being "in charge".

 

[Ragitsu]

We learned from Data that sometimes it's smarter to make up your own mind rather than just follow orders without thinking things.

One of the more elusive nuggets of wisdom teaches us when to conform and when to rebel.

 

[Herbert]

I don't know...

This is one of those moments that requires you to suspend your disbelief for the sake of the story; in the centuries the Federation has been around, they haven't learned about "artificial lifeforms" comparable to androids from any species they've encountered?

Well, yes they have. See the TOS episodes, I Mudd and What Little Girls Are Made Of

 

[Herbert]

Yeah, I agree. And in the end Data won Hobson's respect by proving that he was a good commanding officer.

I don't know about that. In the last scene with Hobson, he says "yes sir.....captain" but the way he says "captain" and Data's momentary pause before walking away leads me to believe he still has contempt for Data. I certainly don't get a sense of any respect from Hobson there.

 

[Farscape One]

I actually interpreted Hobson 'captain' remark at the end as him accepting he was wrong about Data. Better phrased, he let Data know without actually saying 'I'm sorry'. He might still hold some contempt, but it's much more subdued.

 

[Mojochi]

I do think the intention was to offer a deserving "Captain" to Data at the end... however, somehow this guy can't even do that without sounding like a judgmental dick lol

 

[Ragitsu]

I do think the intention was to offer a deserving "Captain" to Data at the end... however, somehow this guy can't even do that without sounding like a judgmental dick lol

"Captain...could you give me tips on how to be a better human?"