Rogue One questions

[fireproof78]

I've always rationalized it as he knew the ship was captured and secure in ANH. He had no reason to rush in.

While in Rogue One he was trying to prevent them from escaping.

Which is as fair of a rationalization as you can make but when you look at it strung together the pacing is very off. And Vader feels a lot more restrained which makes it feel even more off. Plus, as I noted the inconsistency of how Leia got the plans.

 

[Timo]

I wouldn't worry about restraint. Vader does his best to blow the ship to smithereens (and demonstrates how Star Destroyers actually are pretty impotent as far as warships go), then has his troops board and gun down everybody, and then stumbles onto a Senator. Apparently, he's not in on the Emperor's plans to perform a complete palace coup at that juncture, and might not even be aware that the rebellion has ties to the government; it must be jarring for him there.

But he's really played as a brainless pawn if he isn't aware of the significance of those plans - perhaps the exact content remains secret, but the stunning severity of its compromising nature is evident from the fact that Tarkin just destroyed an Imperial installation to prevent it getting out. So abandoning the chase at that point really makes no sense: rather than report back to base in person (even with the hot news that a Senator backs up the rebellion!), he should complete his mission. And, yes, suggest to his boss that blowing up all of Tatooine would be a wise move right now. I mean, should we really add "afraid of the Hutts" to the standing charges of "brainless pawn" here?

It's not just Captain Antilles who's telling bold lies there: the Princess is equally guilty of acting stupid, and the fact that Vader has truck with that, stooping down to a silly argument, shows he really is afraid of the Senate... But even this is no excuse for taking prisoners as opposed to just burning down the ship, let alone failing to personally follow the Tatooine lead. Vader really looks like a big coward in this version of the events.

Which isn't a bad thing for ANH or the original trilogy as such. It just isn't what we would expect of the former Anakin Skywalker after having witnessed his ruthlessness at previous timepoints now.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

Tarkin could care less about the plans. He shot at Scariff to take out a rival. Nothing more. All he wants is the location of the Rebel Base so he can end the Rebellion and get back to using fear to keep the Outer Rim in his control. Maybe go to Lothal and end the mess out there afterwards. But Tatooine? Waste of energy. No one will care if it is blown up, and that's the problem. Can't use it as an example to others if the Galaxy at large either won't care, or will be glad that Hutt owned planet of scum and villainy is gone. No fear generated from that effort. Just clapping citizens or general disinterest.

 

[Timo]

I could buy Tarkin disbelieving in a threat from the main designer of his superweapon having turned traitor - that he's that much of a fool works well for the plot. But killing Scarif just to snuff a rival? This sort of establishes that the DS has piss-poor aim, as its shot only takes out the antenna rather than frying any location Krennic would be likely to honor with his presence at the time... In turn, if Tarkin does care about the plans, then precision sniping of the antenna would be just the thing to do, allowing personnel (very much including Krennic, were he not already gunned down!) to evacuate before the blast wave.

As for killing Tatooine, he has already embarrassed the Empire by firing on one of its own. Plus decapitolated Jedha, perhaps slightly evening it out. He shouldn't be worrying about additional planets exploding, as the reputation of the DS will be made or broken by its later acts of terror anyway, the news of the early fumbles having no time to spread. Tarkin doesn't need valid targets, as he can pick Alderaans at total random. And in between, he really can and should snack on Tatooines.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

I wouldn't worry about restraint. Vader does his best to blow the ship to smithereens (and demonstrates how Star Destroyers actually are pretty impotent as far as warships go), then has his troops board and gun down everybody, and then stumbles onto a Senator. Apparently, he's not in on the Emperor's plans to perform a complete palace coup at that juncture, and might not even be aware that the rebellion has ties to the government; it must be jarring for him there.

But he's really played as a brainless pawn if he isn't aware of the significance of those plans - perhaps the exact content remains secret, but the stunning severity of its compromising nature is evident from the fact that Tarkin just destroyed an Imperial installation to prevent it getting out. So abandoning the chase at that point really makes no sense: rather than report back to base in person (even with the hot news that a Senator backs up the rebellion!), he should complete his mission. And, yes, suggest to his boss that blowing up all of Tatooine would be a wise move right now. I mean, should we really add "afraid of the Hutts" to the standing charges of "brainless pawn" here?

It's not just Captain Antilles who's telling bold lies there: the Princess is equally guilty of acting stupid, and the fact that Vader has truck with that, stooping down to a silly argument, shows he really is afraid of the Senate... But even this is no excuse for taking prisoners as opposed to just burning down the ship, let alone failing to personally follow the Tatooine lead. Vader really looks like a big coward in this version of the events.

Which isn't a bad thing for ANH or the original trilogy as such. It just isn't what we would expect of the former Anakin Skywalker after having witnessed his ruthlessness at previous timepoints now.

Timo Saloniemi

A burn it all to the ground approach accomplishes nothing, since, as Vader notes Leia is his only link to finding the secret Rebel base. So, destroying Tatooine, pursing the plans, are secondary points to his and Tarkin's ultimate goals of destroying the Rebellion. Tatootine is completely insignificant to those plans. Recall that Vader is not brainless but he is myopic.

 

[JD]

How so? It makes him brave. He KNOWS he's lying. He KNOWS Vader knows he's lying. But his faith in his cause is such that he does it anyway, almost certain of the outcome awaiting him. And he does it on the off chance that the 10 seconds he buys doing it might make all the difference. Which, as it turns out, they do.



To your first question, I don't think he's specifically stalling for the droids. But he 100% is stalling for Leia. He's trusting her to come up with something, some crazy rabbit out of a hat. I don't think he necessarily knows about R2, or even about Kenobi. He might, but he doesn't have to for the scene to work. He puts his faith in Leia, and in the Rebellion, and gives his life to buy her half a minute to make some kind of play. 30 seconds that brought low an Empire.

As to your second question, I doubt it but I'm not sure it's ever been explored one way or the other. Wedge is typically portrayed as being Corellian (not sure if Disney canon has said one way or another yet, just that he was an Imperial trainee). I always just kind of assumed Captain (typically Raymus) Antilles was Alderaanian given his role. I suppose he doesn't need to be, however.

That's definitely a better way of looking at it.

 

[Timo]

A burn it all to the ground approach accomplishes nothing, since, as Vader notes Leia is his only link to finding the secret Rebel base. So, destroying Tatooine, pursing the plans, are secondary points to his and Tarkin's ultimate goals of destroying the Rebellion. Tatootine is completely insignificant to those plans. Recall that Vader is not brainless but he is myopic.

What would make us think that Tarkin wants to destroy the rebel base?

This is merely a bonus that drops on his lap when Leia is captured. But the rebellion is not Tarkin's target. Planets like Alderaan are. The ultimate and stated goal is to make rebel hunts unnecessary by cowing everybody into siding with the Emperor.

Finding and destroying the rebel base is not a prerequisite to controlling the galaxy. Finding and/or destroying the plans is.

And perhaps it wasn't in ANH yet, but R1 is what makes it clear that this is the proper order of things: the DS doesn't have a potential, hypothetical weakness, but is assuredly rigged to blow by its traitorous chief engineer. Tarkin would be (is?) a fool to think otherwise after R1.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

New one:

When Jyn and Cassian are in Jedha City, an Imperial procession of tanks and stormtroopers comes through. Before Saw's men attack, the troops are clearly broadcasting something to the crowd, but I can't understand what they're saying. Can anyone make it out?

Also, have any SW novels explored what K2SO was like before Cassian got ahold of him and reprogrammed him? Or told the story of how exactly that happened?

 

[David cgc]

Or told the story of how exactly that happened?

I believe it's been said that that's a story we'll see in the upcoming D+ prequel series about Cassian.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Also I wonder what happened to Saw's men after they evacuated from Jedha. Did they strike out on their own? Or rejoin the Rebel Alliance? How did they fare without Saw's leadership?

 

[JD]

A group of surviving Partisans appear in the Battlefront II prequel novel Inferno Squad, and some more appear in #38 - #43 and #62 - #67 in the Marvel no subtitle comic series. I haven't read any of them yet, but I am up to #34 in comic series, so I get to those pretty soon. Here's what Wookiepedia says about them after Yavin.

Spoiler: Partisans post Yavin

Following the death of Gerrera, the remaining Partisans under the leadership of Benthic continued his extremist legacy to thwart the Empire at any cost. After the theft of the Death Star plans, the newly formed Inferno Squad was ordered to infiltrate and eliminate the surviving Partisan cell called the Dreamers, which they did.[6]

When the rebellion began looking for a new base, another group of surviving Partisans were then approached by Leia, Jedi Luke Skywalker, Captain Han Solo, and Chewbacca after rescuing Partisan Ubin Des and Chulco Gi from the Imperials. The Partisans were attempting to stop the Empire from extracting more kyber crystals from what remained of Jedha. Des and Gi then took the Millennium Falcon to the Partisans' new base on Jedha. There, they were brought before Benthic, who believed they should kill the Rebels, but agreed to listen to her. He then agreed to accept her supplies and spoke with her about re-joining the Alliance.[15] Skywalker and Benthic then boarded the drill citadel. Benthic forced one of the technicians to lower the shields so that the Partisans and the Falcon could attack the citadel.[20] After the mission, the Falcon dropped off the surviving Partisans and refugees on NaJedha. Benthic promised that he and his partisans would guard Jedha until it was gone. Leia agreed to have the Partisans work with the Alliance once again. Ubin Des was then given the Medal of Bravery by Captain Solo in recognition for her actions.[21]

Following their joint effort with the Rebel Alliance, the mission to Shu-Torun, Benthic and his fellow partisans went to Salobea.[22]

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

A burn it all to the ground approach accomplishes nothing, since, as Vader notes Leia is his only link to finding the secret Rebel base. So, destroying Tatooine, pursing the plans, are secondary points to his and Tarkin's ultimate goals of destroying the Rebellion. Tatootine is completely insignificant to those plans. Recall that Vader is not brainless but he is myopic.

To support this, Vader will later say:

"This will be a day long remembered--it has seen the end of Kenobi, and will soon see the end of the Rebellion."

Obviously, destroying the Rebellion was the first order of business; scare tactics (such as destroying Leia's homeworld) would not chill the Empire's number one threat into inaction.

 

[Tuskin38]

Also, have any SW novels explored what K2SO was like before Cassian got ahold of him and reprogrammed him? Or told the story of how exactly that happened?

No novels, but there was a one shot comic that covered it.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/K-2SO#Biography

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Rogue_One_-_Cassian_&_K-2SO_Special_1

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What happens to the Hammerhead Corvette after it rams one of the Star Destroyers?

I've heard it said that it actually gets stuck in the side of the Imperial ship, and is destroyed during the subsequent collision with the shield gate. But I've gone through that scene and I can't find any evidence that the Hammerhead is still stuck in the side of the one Destroyer. I'm fairly sure it was able to detach before that happened. Can anyone confirm?

Also, in the earlier scene when the Rebel communications officer rushes out to talk to Mon Mothma, is one of the officers with her (the one with the white helmet) the Captain of the Hammerhead?

 

[Tuskin38]

They put escape pods on the model to explain where the crew went, but they never animated them jettisoning.

 

[Reverend]

What happens to the Hammerhead Corvette after it rams one of the Star Destroyers?

I've heard it said that it actually gets stuck in the side of the Imperial ship, and is destroyed during the subsequent collision with the shield gate. But I've gone through that scene and I can't find any evidence that the Hammerhead is still stuck in the side of the one Destroyer. I'm fairly sure it was able to detach before that happened. Can anyone confirm?

You can see it being destroyed as the shield gate explodes. (all three of these grabs are taken mere seconds apart)

Basically it went down with the Star Destroyer Persecutor and got smeared across the shield before it overloaded.
All that said, I recall some interview back when the movie came out that actually got into this. Now as far as the intent of the scene is concerned, the ship is clearly supposed to be destroyed with all hands, but some of the VFX artists got a little enamoured with the idea that the crew made it off, so in those last shots they modified the asset to make it seem as if the escape pods had been jettisoned (even though it's not really visible on screen.)

Of course even if that was the case and the bridge crew made it to the lifeboat, the odds of them being picked up by a friendly ship in time for the withdrawal (and by a ship that subsequently got obliterated by the Devastator) are decidedly slim. So everyone probably died in the battle...and if they didn't, they were probably taken prisoner by the Empire and subsequently executed.

No novels, but there was a one shot comic that covered it.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/K-2SO#Biography

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Rogue_One_-_Cassian_&_K-2SO_Special_1

And it's mediocre to say the least. I fully expect this to be drastically upon expanded, if not outright ignored in the show, and honestly; no loss there.

 

[Tuskin38]

You can see it being destroyed as the shield gate explodes.

Oh and I think the escape pods are gone in that left shot.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

This is a really small thing, but...those Jedi statues on Jedha have been bothering me lately.

If statues that big were constructed standing up (as I assume they were), then fell over, wouldn't they have shattered into a billion pieces upon impact with the ground? I don't see how they could be as intact as they were.

 

[fireproof78]

This is a really small thing, but...those Jedi statues on Jedha have been bothering me lately.

If statues that big were constructed standing up (as I assume they were), then fell over, wouldn't they have shattered into a billion pieces upon impact with the ground? I don't see how they could be as intact as they were.

Unless they were starting to erode and taken down to preserve them.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Unless they were starting to erode and taken down to preserve them.

But what happened to the parts we can't see? Buried in the ground somehow?