How come Starfleet knew nothing about the Ferengi?

[Arpy]

You first tried to claim that the writers did the war as a result of studio pressure; I pointed out that that was false and that the writers did the war of their own volition. You then tried to claim that they did the war because of commercial pressure, with no evidence. You do come across as weirdly attached to the idea that they did the war because of some outside pressure, instead of just acknowledging they did the war because they wanted to do the war.

And you come across as needlessly, nigglingly, combative because someone dared point out shortcomings of your beloved series. Oh well. I guess that’s you.

The writers adjusted their plans throughout the series run, as those of any show do, and, gasp, creative decisions might have been made in light of broader considerations. They might have delighted in being able to lean harder into the darker stuff and serialization than they initially thought they’d ever have been allowed to (and were only able to in part because Berman was focused on lighter episodic flagship series Voyager), but that doesn’t mean that doing WWII: In Space! was always part of the plan. The Cardassians were frequent baddies and the Dominion were being set up to be the same. Same as on any show.

The war arc seemed to be the juiciest way to push for serialization. Every series wants to be a success and every writer thinks that if they could just do whatever they wanted, the fans would love it more. So, in a landscape of declining viewership across the board, they swung for the fences.

 

[Tuskin38]

(of course the way territory is marked on those expanded universe maps is always a problem)

Canon maps too.. well would have been canon if it was on screen. There's a PADD prop in insurrection showing a very crude diagram of the galaxy

 

[Orphalesion]

Canon maps too.. well would have been canon if it was on screen. There's a PADD prop in insurrection showing a very crude diagram of the galaxy

Honestly I wasn't even aware that there were any canon maps. TThough that map looks a bit sus with how much larger the Klingons, Cardassians, and especially Romulans appear to be in relation the FDP.
But yeah that map has the same problems like all the others. 2D territories in what should be a 3D space.

Of course that would be very difficult to depict outside of 3d-holograms, like the one Voyager used in Year of Hell.

 

[Arpy]

Honestly I wasn't even aware that there were any canon maps. TThough that map looks a bit sus with how much larger the Klingons, Cardassians, and especially Romulans appear to be in relation the FDP.
But yeah that map has the same problems like all the others. 2D territories in what should be a 3D space.

Of course that would be very difficult to depict outside of 3d-holograms, like the one Voyager used in Year of Hell.

Worse, it’s not even the Federation but Earth’s star system that’s massively outsized and depicted the size of all Ferengi territory. Maybe the Federation really is a Homo Sapiens Only Club I’m the minds of some people.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Canon maps too.. well would have been canon if it was on screen. There's a PADD prop in insurrection showing a very crude diagram of the galaxy

Eh, it's "canon" insomuch as it's onscreen, but PADDs and background screen displays are generally a dubious source of information and often full of in-jokes and references, or are designed to fill a background screen but not to be scrutinized up close.

Unless we think there's actually a spacefaring parrot dubbed "The Great Bird of the Galaxy" with Gene Roddenberry's head on it, as TNG 'The Naked Now' would have us believe. Or the TMP/TWOK/TSFS Refit Enterprise had the same internal blueprints as the TOS-era ship did, as the bridge displays showed.

 

[Unicron]

Clearly, we need more space parrots on Trek.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Picard season 1, Discovery season 1 and now 3 all had/have detailed space maps. Of course it's all set dressing (to the extent the Disco S1 one was just taken the 2002 Star Trek Star Charts book, and had "out of time" stuff like the Enterprise-A's route to Kronos in STVI visible in BTS pics) but they're always really cool to look at.

Worse, it’s not even the Federation but Earth’s star system that’s massively outsized and depicted the size of all Ferengi territory. Maybe the Federation really is a Homo Sapiens Only Club I’m the minds of some people.

Think of it as the pointers that appear on Google maps. Even if you zoom right out, they remain the same size. Maybe if you pinch zoomed on the map it'd depict things more accurately.

 

[Kor]

Of course, I know the out-of-universe reason is that they wanted to mirror the introduction of the Romulans because the Ferengi were originally intended to be the main enemy of TNG. But in-universe, how did Starfleet have basically no knowledge of the Ferengi outside of rumours at the time of what was essentially first contact with them? I can understand how, a century prior, they knew almost nothing about the Romulans. After all, the Romulan government is essentially space North Korea and so it would be exceptionally difficult for a Romulan to reach the Federation. But the Ferengi government is nothing like that. The Ferengi seek out profit wherever they go. I know that isn't how they were originally characterised, but in-universe during early TNG there were surely Quark-types within the Alliance. (In fact, it's likely Zek was the Grand Nagus at the time.) Even if you accept that the Federation is a moneyless society (which I'm not 100% convinced of, but that's a topic for another thread) and thus not an attractive destination for Ferengi, there are other species in contact with the Federation that do use money. Were there no Ferengi doing business with the Klingons at the time? Did no non-Federation planet visited by Starfleet have Ferengi visitors? The only explanation I can think of is that a Grand Nagus other than Zek was in power at the time, one who was isolationist like the Romulans, but I don't see that lasting very long before the Nagus was removed from power by a horde of angry Ferengi whose profits had been destroyed by the lack of trade. There's definitely not enough time for the Ferengi to undergo a complete societal and political change from space pirates to space capitalists, either. Or is it really as simple as the Ferengi just keeping their distance from the Federation for whatever reason?

The Ferengi were depicted as profit-driven from their very first appearance in TNG's "The Last Outpost." Data used the term "Yankee trader" to describe them. And profit played a part other times when they appeared in TNG. It's just that their profit-seeking was done through armed aggression instead of underhanded business negotiations like we later got used to with DS9.

In my head canon, I like to think that both types of Ferengi still co-exist in the DS9 years even though we don't see the TNG type anymore.

Kor

 

[MAGolding]

The Ferengi were depicted as profit-driven from their very first appearance in TNG's "The Last Outpost." Data used the term "Yankee trader" to describe them. And profit played a part other times when they appeared in TNG. It's just that their profit-seeking was done through armed aggression instead of underhanded business negotiations like we later got used to with DS9.

In my head canon, I like to think that both types of Ferengi still co-exist in the DS9 years even though we don't see the TNG type anymore.

Kor

The TNG type Ferengi who are crews on Ferenghi ships are as rare among Ferenghi as Starfleet crewmembers are among humans and other citizens of the Federation.. So naturally they are somewhat different from normal everyday Ferengi.

 

[1001001]

They put the "Cool" in "Cool Whip"

 

[The Wormhole]

Anyone else now imagining a Ferengi pronouncing "Cool Whip" Stewie Griffin style?