What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Orphalesion]

That moment is nonsense. Why would the Q give a rats ass about provoking the Borg?

They probably just shoved that into the episode to make the Borg seem even more menacing and mysterious.
Though you could probably come up with all sorts of reasons; for instance if we assume the Q shepherd certain species (like humanity) towards ascension into something like themselves then Q might have just jeopardized one of those species (humanity) and maybe blinking the Borg out of existence or helping humanity against them would be prohibited by their form of the prime directive.
Or if they are interested in maintaining some sort of "balance" between the major powers of the Milky Way then the Borg taking over the Federation would ruin that.
Or something like that.

Imho, the bigger problem with that whole scene is really Q's reaction to Guinan and how that never went anywhere.

It also highlights one of the big problems I have with the whole Q nonsense.
Like...how did the Borg pass their trial? Or the Klingons? Or the Kazon? Or the Founders? Or the Cardassians? Or the Vaadwaur? Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

[cooleddie74]

"Don't Provoke the Borg" is one of de Lancie's peak moments in terms of characterization. Sadly it's wrapped in a sandwich that's largely bad cheese and pastrami that turned long ago.

 

[Farscape One]

It may be something as simple as what Quinn said about the Borg not being as omnipotent as they appear.

If true, which I firmly so, all it takes is one Borg injecting nanoprobes into a Q that isn't paying attention while toying with them.

 

[Tim Thomason]

It may be something as simple as what Quinn said about the Borg not being as omnipotent as they appear.

If true, which I firmly so, all it takes is one Borg injecting nanoprobes into a Q that isn't paying attention while toying with them.

While I firmly agree that the Q aren't omnipotent in the least, the form we see is most likely a projection of some sort, probably from outside of our realm, and nanoprobes will be about as useful smashing a hammer on my phone when I see someone I disagree with.

There are a couple occasions (namely Deja Q and Death Wish, and probably True Q) when the Q in front of us isn't a mental or physical projection, but these instances would give the Borg maybe some knowledge (although this could probably be taken away quite easily).

The concern with provoking the Borg is, in my mind, about maintaining the stability of the galactic ecosystem. The Q, outside of Q himself, are outside observers, and Q is the guy watching the snails chug along and occasionally throwing rocks at the squirrels. He knows it's a good idea not to poke a stick at the fire ants.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

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Kurtzman & the new generation of Star Trek really need to find ways to avoid having Mid-Space collision with objects.

Given how vast Space is, there is really no excuse for colliding with objects in space.

You have bloody Super Luminal Sensors, use them.

Don't let your StarShip hit another object in space if you don't have to and can avoid it.

If that Asteroid / Debris / Whatever Field is too dense, send in a smaller & manueverable craft to dodge the objects.

Don't risk your parent StarShip if you don't have to.

We teach modern drivers of Automobiles how to best avoid accidents & collisions, the same should be true with StarShip pilots and their Captains.

The amount of unnecessary repairs incurred because you can't bloody avoid hitting an object in the vastness of space.

-_-

 

[eschaton]

Here's one:

I don't understand people who prefer TOS Klingons to Berman-era Klingons. At all.

I mean yes, I get the arguments that the Klingons were Flanderized and sometimes a bit one-note during the Berman era. Though this was not universal. We saw lots of different types of Klingons, particularly on DS9 (think of the fat, harmless, Klingon waiter, for example). Even if there was a cultural stereotype, at least there was something - some sense of worldbuilding. Effort went into creating Klingon music, fashion, rituals, history, mythology, morality - it felt like it was distinct from the blandness of the Federation.

In contrast, in TOS, Klingons were just the bad guys. Now, John Colicos and Michael Ansara did amazing work with Kor and Kang (I'm less a fan of Koloth) but aside from those performances, they're just a bunch of militaristic, authoritarian thugs out to mess with the Federation. Ultimately, we had two great characters, but not great worldbuilding, which is an important part of making speculative fiction feel "lived in" to me.

I should clarify here I'm talking about TOS only here. I thought the Klingon portrayal in TUC was great.

 

[Orphalesion]

In contrast, in TOS, Klingons were just the bad guys. Now, John Colicos and Michael Ansara did amazing work with Kor and Kang (I'm less a fan of Koloth) but aside from those performances, they're just a bunch of militaristic, authoritarian thugs out to mess with the Federation. Ultimately, we had two great characters, but not great worldbuilding, which is an important part of making speculative fiction feel "lived in" to me.

Plus their make-up was very boring and very unfortunate.
Though tbf, there were some more sympathetic Klingons in the Day of the Dove. Which is also the only episode where we get a glimpse at the reason why the Klingons became imperialist; their home was resource poor and they felt it was necessary to push outward and subjugate other species.

The TNG-era Klingons, while they looked better and we saw more of their culture became pretty one-note over time; everything was honor, growling, blood, worms, every ritual involved someone being beaten with sticks etc. etc. etc.
Though personally I think I would be a lot more content with the TNG-era Klingons if they hadn't had THAT much exposure. Like every single show had to have Klingons and Klingon stories etc. etc. etc. It was too much after a while, in my opinion.

 

[fireproof78]

Here's one:

I don't understand people who prefer TOS Klingons to Berman-era Klingons. At all.

I mean yes, I get the arguments that the Klingons were Flanderized and sometimes a bit one-note during the Berman era. Though this was not universal. We saw lots of different types of Klingons, particularly on DS9 (think of the fat, harmless, Klingon waiter, for example). Even if there was a cultural stereotype, at least there was something - some sense of worldbuilding. Effort went into creating Klingon music, fashion, rituals, history, mythology, morality - it felt like it was distinct from the blandness of the Federation.

In contrast, in TOS, Klingons were just the bad guys. Now, John Colicos and Michael Ansara did amazing work with Kor and Kang (I'm less a fan of Koloth) but aside from those performances, they're just a bunch of militaristic, authoritarian thugs out to mess with the Federation. Ultimately, we had two great characters, but not great worldbuilding, which is an important part of making speculative fiction feel "lived in" to me.

I should clarify here I'm talking about TOS only here. I thought the Klingon portrayal in TUC was great.

Because I like having "just bad guys." "Day of the Dove" and "Errand of Mercy" gave enough information for my own mind to fill ideas about the Klingons. Berman era Klingons just plain suck. They lack nuance, intrigue or interest at all for me. They are not enjoyable, not entertaining not engaging at all. The one contrasting episode I'll give is "Barge of the Dead" and B'Elanna's own struggles with her mixed heritage. That was interesting. The rest I could honestly not care about, and I've tried. Had a friend in high school who was huge in to Klingons and we would discuss at length. But, it never felt "real" to me, like Kor and Kang were able to sell.

 

[dupersuper]

Because the one time Q decided to provoke the Borg, he was stripped of his powers because of it. The Continuum itself was upset because the provocation changed the balance of power and led to multiple attempts by the Borg to conquer the Federation. Probably because it messed up their ongoing humanity trial.

I don't recall it being said that the Borg encounter specifically had anything more to do with Q getting depowered than his general mischief or failure to entice Riker.

It may be something as simple as what Quinn said about the Borg not being as omnipotent as they appear.

If true, which I firmly so, all it takes is one Borg injecting nanoprobes into a Q that isn't paying attention while toying with them.

I assume you meant the Q not being as omnipotent as they appear, which I don't buy for a second.

 

[eschaton]

Because I like having "just bad guys." "Day of the Dove" and "Errand of Mercy" gave enough information for my own mind to fill ideas about the Klingons. Berman era Klingons just plain suck. They lack nuance, intrigue or interest at all for me. They are not enjoyable, not entertaining not engaging at all. The one contrasting episode I'll give is "Barge of the Dead" and B'Elanna's own struggles with her mixed heritage. That was interesting. The rest I could honestly not care about, and I've tried. Had a friend in high school who was huge in to Klingons and we would discuss at length. But, it never felt "real" to me, like Kor and Kang were able to sell.

What about an episode like DS9's Soldiers of the Empire? It had a lot of Klingon characters, and they varied considerably (a depressed Klingon, a superstitious one, etc.)

 

[fireproof78]

What about an episode like DS9's Soldiers of the Empire? It had a lot of Klingon characters, and they varied considerably (a depressed Klingon, a superstitious one, etc.)

Eh....I'll say it was OK, but not enough to keep me engaged.

 

[Farscape One]

I don't recall it being said that the Borg encounter specifically had anything more to do with Q getting depowered than his general mischief or failure to entice Riker.



I assume you meant the Q not being as omnipotent as they appear, which I don't buy for a second.

Yes, I meant Q. And Quinn himself is a Q, so when he tells Tuvok that the Q are just simply much more advanced than any of the other races like humans, Vulcans, etc., and compares the difference to Voyager and cavemen, I believe it.

And it makes sense. Refer to Arthur C. Clarke's third law.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The TNG-era Klingons, while they looked better and we saw more of their culture became pretty one-note over time; everything was honor, growling, blood, worms, every ritual involved someone being beaten with sticks etc. etc. etc.

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[dupersuper]

Yes, I meant Q. And Quinn himself is a Q, so when he tells Tuvok that the Q are just simply much more advanced than any of the other races like humans, Vulcans, etc., and compares the difference to Voyager and cavemen, I believe it.

And it makes sense. Refer to Arthur C. Clarke's third law.

Yes, but in this case I read advanced as evolved, not technologically ahead of us, and they're practically as beyond the Borg in that regard as they are us.

 

[Orphalesion]

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It's funny because it's true!

 

[cooleddie74]

The Q and the Organians are probably on similar level of evolution with both being beings of pure energy who choose to assume physical form to interact with life forms on a lower evolutionary scale. We don't know when the Organians ascended beyond the need for a physical body but one of the Organian Council's members describes the length of time as "uncounted thousands of years," which can mean almost any time.

 

[at Quark's]

The Q and the Organians are probably on similar level of evolution with both being beings of pure energy who choose to assume physical form to interact with life forms on a lower evolutionary scale. We don't know when the Organians ascended beyond the need for a physical body but one of the Organian Council's members describes the length of time as "uncounted thousands of years," which can mean almost any time.

Not sure what would be so controversial about that opinion

The Organians themselves say that 'millions of years ago' they were humanoid beings. So while not technically impossible, I don't think they still were on the humanoid level, say, a mere 100.000 years ago.

I wonder how relations between such species as the Q and the Organians would be. The Organians do feel a bit more reclusive to me.

 

[cooleddie74]

Just replying to the Q evolution comments, not making a "controversial" statement.

 

[at Quark's]

Ah right, I suppose I should have read a bit further back than just the two posts that were new

(and I also didn't enter a controversial opinion myself. Let's see. Erm. Based on Data's portrayal, I never would buy he didn't have emotions. Just that he was unable to identify them within himself. )

 

[cooleddie74]

If we have to base Data's lack or possession of emotions on early Season 1 episodes then he definitely had something going on. He made "The Cage(TOS)" Spock seem downright cold and insensitive.