Spoilers The Flash - Season 8 Discussion Thread

[tomalak301]

About a half an hour into this episode, I was thinking it was the weakest episode of the three so far. It didn't really feature Barry very much, I was thinking Cicile was replaced by an imposter, and this rivalry between Cecile and Iris felt a little overly dramatic. However, once we got to Jefferson and Barry's showdown, Leon shows up and this event takes a turn towards Time Travel, and then the end, I was back to thinking this is some of the best work Flash as a series has done since at least Season 2. I loved how this episode came together, especially Jefferson, Barry, and talking about Oliver. It's moments like that which made the Arrowverse endearing for a few years (specifically during the crossovers and Arrow Season 2 leading into Flash Season 1). Then we got the ending with Thawne and I can't wait till next week. I think it was an obvious guess that Thawne would be involved, but seeing he and Iris together (And Chester's hair) gave it the shock treatment that I was hoping for. This event might go down as my favorite Crossover event. I just hope they stick the landing.

 

[theenglish]

It seemed obvious to me that Joe's "death" is just a plot thing and something Barry has to figure out and fix.

I am thinking the same thing.

 

[Christopher]

Wow, this was the best Flash episode in years. Terrific character drama, well-written and well-played. Even if Joe's death is a temporal manipulation to be reversed, it still gave the actors some meaty emotional stuff to dig into. The conflict between Iris and Cecile was intense, marvelously played by Danielle Nicolet.

I guess we can assume that Thawne is the one who's rewritten the timeline. Up to his old tricks again.

I'm confused -- Jefferson said that the League instituted the Injustice Protocol "after Faust." Did they have some offscreen encounter with Felix Faust? Maybe there will be a tie-in comic about it at some point?

Also, why was the floor of the Hangar of Justice so wet? In every single shot, it looked like they'd just hosed it down. Which seems like a bad idea for scenes involving two lightning-powered heroes.

Oh, and it's kind of silly that they had to rig this whole telepathic probe thing to find Barry when he was in the heroes' alternate base all along. I mean, we know that the Hall of Justice is actually a secondary STAR Labs property, so it's really the natural place to go after losing the main headquarters. Where else would he go? It should've been the first place they looked.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I like that the injustice protocols are officially a thing in this universe. That question of what do you if one of the god-like superheroes goes rogue is an important one. So I am glad they addressed it.

But was Barry too quick to invoke the injustice protocols? After all, with all the craziness he's seen from mind control to time travel, surely he should consider the possibility that something else could be responsible and that he is not to blame. Having said that, it is in character. Barry has always been willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. It's one of his character traits that makes him a hero. That's why he needs friends around him to wheel him in and show him alternatives.

I loved the ending. I think most of us suspected Reverse Flash was responsible but he is such a great villain for the Flash. And the premise of Reverse Flash changing the timeline to screw with Barry and get the upper hand is great.

I do think this episode strongly hints that Despero is not the main villain. He is just misguided. He assumed that the Flash was responsible based on the info he had and thinks he is doing the right thing. I think we will see Despero change sides and join Team Flash against the main villain. Is Reverse Flash even the main villain or is there something else going on?

 

[Romulan_spy]

I am not sure I buy Jefferson's warning that him taking the Flash's powers is permanent. We all know that the Flash has lost his powers before and gets them back because he is the titular hero of the show. So even if Jefferson had completely severed the Flash's connection with the Speed Force, the show would find an in-universe way to restore the connection. Heck, wouldn't Speed Force Nora be able to put Speed Force back into Barry and restore the connection that way?

Also, we know Barry has reduced speed because of Jefferson starting the process of cutting some of the connection (just not all the way). We see in the teaser for next week that Reverse Flash is gloating over being faster again than Barry and "winning". But I am sure Barry will get back his full speed in time for the big climax fight. After all, Barry always seems to level up and get faster just in time for the big finale. I would not be surprised if Speed Force Nora shows up to level up Barry again just in time for the big fight with Reverse Flash. I think part 5 of the crossover should be really exciting since we will probably get a fully powered up Flash going head on with Reverse Flash, plus the two superpowered teams battling it out in a big royale.

 

[The Habs Fan]

This was the best Flash episode in a very long time. I only hope that the rest of Season 8 is as good as this Armageddon storyline.

I also found it interesting that the justice society have had some offscreen adventures (the reference to fighting Felix Faust convincing them to enact an Injustice procedure).

Black Lightning was used very well. Looks like he’ll be in next couple of episodes too, as will Alex and Batwoman I assume. It looks like Reverse Flash has changed the timeline in order to basically switch roles with Barry. Might be more to it then that as Darhk is yet to appear.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Barry is a moron who has learnt nothing over the last 7 years.

It's always the big bad, and it always seems insane when you yell at reality that it is wrong, and you are right, but you are always right.

Your love for Iris will Bend the Universe into a pretzel.

Although Oliver was in love with Iris, and he made the Universe.

I remember thinking that Thawne as into Iris years ago.

Let's just rename the show.

"I Love Iris".

 

[Christopher]

I also found it interesting that the justice society have had some offscreen adventures (the reference to fighting Felix Faust convincing them to enact an Injustice procedure).

In theory, I like the idea that the Justice League (Society is Stargirl) has teamed up for adventures since Crisis, but it's frustrating having to just hear about them rather than see them. As I said before, I really hope they do a tie-in comic.

 

[FreezeC77]

With all the craziness they've faced, multiple times seeing timelines rewritten. I just don't get why it took so long to think "HEY! Maybe this weird **** going on isn't Barry going crazy, but a 'big bad' causing it. Oh yea. Reverse Flash has changed the past before..."

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Barry is a moron who has learnt nothing over the last 7 years.

Keeping the "hero" as a dullard is how poor "writers" can get the hero into new situations like this less than threatening "Armageddon" matter.

...and of course, Black Lightning was not written as should have been, but that's what happens when the hacks on Flash use characters from another series with an entirely different character development process. ..and no reaction to Barry mentioning Jefferson's family is not the character playing as he would on his own series. Cress Williams was wasted in this slop.

"I Love Iris".

I feel you have your ear to the door of Berlanti productions' "writer's" room.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Keeping the "hero" as a dullard is how poor "writers" can get the hero into new situations like this less than threatening "Armageddon" matter.

...and of course, Black Lightning was not written as should have been, but that's what happens when the hacks on Flash use characters from another series with an entirely different character development process. ..and no reaction to Barry mentioning Jefferson's family is not the character playing as he would on his own series. Cress Williams was wasted in this slop.



I feel you have your ear to the door of Berlanti productions' "writer's" room.

After I'd watched Back to the Future for maybe the 40th time, I finally figured out why Marty McFly was so fricking thick. He has to ask stupid questions so that Doc can explain vital information to the audience. Without his dumb questions, Doc says nothing, and we the audience miss a lot of what is going on, or why things are happening.

That goes triple for the pretty girls who used to hang out with classic Doctor Who.

( Except for Zoe Heriot, Liz Shaw and Romana.)

There was probably a methane leak in Jo Grant's bedroom when she was growing up.

 

[cylkoth]

Erm, wouldn't it make sense for Barry to tell Despero that he's met his 2 adult kids-from the future, which means Dez' 10 years from now got overridden?

 

[Christopher]

Erm, wouldn't it make sense for Barry to tell Despero that he's met his 2 adult kids-from the future, which means Dez' 10 years from now got overridden?

Given how often the timeline gets rewritten, that wouldn't really be a guarantee of anything.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Erm, wouldn't it make sense for Barry to tell Despero that he's met his 2 adult kids-from the future, which means Dez' 10 years from now got overridden?

It seems that the timeline is very malleable in this show. Timelines can get changed and changed again as we've seen many times. So that would not work as proof. And might be the other way around actually. Reverse Flash changed the timeline so Despero's future has overridden the future with Impulse and Nora. Basically, Barry's future kids don't exist anymore because of the new timeline.

 

[cylkoth]

...But Despero wouldn't know that. Barry shows him his memories, and Dez goes "oops, my bad". How about some coffee? I got coupons for Jitters.

 

[Caretaker]

When Jefferson used his power in the Hall of Justice, his arms outstretched, it reminded me of the ending of the original Highlander (the warehouse with the Quickening).

 

[thribs]

A rather random guest list at the end to the RF party. I recognized most of them.

 

[dupersuper]

For people who have watched season 4 of Black Lightning and this episode: does it give anything away? I'm only 4 episodes in.

 

[thribs]

For people who have watched season 4 of Black Lightning and this episode: does it give anything away? I'm only 4 episodes in.

I don’t think so. I haven’t watched season 4 as well and they haven’t mentioned any plot points

 

[Guy Gardener]

...But Despero wouldn't know that. Barry shows him his memories, and Dez goes "oops, my bad". How about some coffee? I got coupons for Jitters.

As soon as Barry doesn't destroy the Earth, Despero's memories are rewritten, and he never goes back to stop Barry. So either Despero is in the past for a different reason, or he winks out of existence in 2021.

If Barry destroys the Future, then his children never grow up, and they never come back in time, and the last three seasons play out wrong, and the Thinker wipes everyone's memories.

Although this is the Earth One Barry.

Whatever Earth Prime's Barry did...

Did Earth Prime's Barry embrace Earth One's Barry's Nora in the other universe Season 5 that we never saw? And did the kids know that this was some doppelgänger shmuck who was not their father, but because they needed the Flash, they lied to this Barry about being their Father when he wasn't... Or did they warn him?