What's in a Name? Dagger of the Mind & Mirror, Mirror

[Captain Tracy]

Both the name of the Tantalus Field/Device from the episode, Mirror, Mirror, and the name of the penal-planet Tantalus V from the episode, Dagger of the Mind, make use of the Greek name of the mythological figure and legend of Tantalus; who, was punished in Tartarus; the deep abyss, which is used as a dungeon of torment and suffering.

The name Tantalus means: Damned to eternal torment.

Pretty clever... those Star Trek writers.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Kirk met Helen Noel at the Christmas party. They meet Lethe (named for the river of forgetfulness) whose memories have been wiped.

 

[Neopeius]

Both the name of the Tantalus Field/Device from the episode, Mirror, Mirror, and the name of the penal-planet Tantalus V from the episode, Dagger of the Mind, make use of the Greek name of the mythological figure and legend of Tantalus; who, was punished in Tartarus; the deep abyss, which is used as a dungeon of torment and suffering.

The name Tantalus means: Damned to eternal torment.

Pretty clever... those Star Trek writers.

Jessica wrote a lovely bit about just this in our recent coverage of Dagger of the Mind.

 

[Captain Tracy]

Jessica wrote a lovely bit about just this in our recent coverage of Dagger of the Mind.

That was a fantastically enjoyable read!

I also read the commentaries contributed by the other member's of your group; and, I was impressed with the high level of cogency and thoughtfulness exhibited through their writings - a very special group of minds; no doubt!

Thank you for sharing!

One other writer's point-of-interest with regard to Dagger of the Mind:

The character of Dr. Tristan Adams serves as a wonderfully powerful example of the lessor-know and lessor-played antagonist archetype: the Anti-Villain - being: a villain that portrays themselves as altruistic, while concealing a sinister character which is secretly motivated by, and, working towards an otherwise nefarious goal.

The actor, James Gregory, provides us with a convincing and potent illustrative demonstration of the fine character nuances of expressing the Anti-Villian; versus, Micheal Strong's equally outstanding and masterful portrayal of the more commonly encountered Tragic Villian; in Dr. Roger Korby.

 

[Warped9]

Jessica wrote a lovely bit about just this in our recent coverage of Dagger of the Mind.

That was very interesting! I’d like to read their other TOS reviews, but I couldn’t find them.

 

[cgervasi]

Jessica wrote a lovely bit about just this in our recent coverage of Dagger of the Mind.

It's nice to read a review from someone who liked the show.

 

[Captain Tracy]

Kirk met Helen Noel at the Christmas party.

Yes, quite correct; and additionally, the etymology of the word: Noël, is derived from the Latin verb nasci, meaning “to be born.”; and paradoxically, Dr. Helen Noel, when fighting the security guard in the high-voltage equipment area, may be the only instance where we see a female TOS crew-member who kills - by directly causing another "to be dead".

 

[Timo]

Of course, Tantalus and Lethe were named in-universe, by people who no doubt know their Greek, while Noël is but a coincidence in-universe.

TOS managed to be cute with these things. TAS went overboard with feline Caitians (who nowadays hail from 15 Lyncis!), shapeshifting Vendorians, branching Phylosians etc. But that, too, is probably in-universe folks having fun with naming the things they meet.

Tantalus is famed for the torments where things are forever just barely (tantalizingly, d'oh) out of his reach. This also nicely characterizes Dr. Adams, a supposedly good man who has gone off the deep end in search of the perfect cure for criminality, the final treatment for the very few uncurables remaining. Twenty years of splendid success will do that to a man!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain Tracy]

... Noël is but a coincidence in-universe.

Is your statement above a documented fact, based on verifiable citation, as to Shimon Wincelberg's - a.k.a: S-Bar David - stated non-intention of employing symbolic irony through sub-textual wordplay;

Or,

Is your definitive statement, as quoted above, merely a conclusion based on your own unsupported opinion?

 

[Timo]

Fuck you.

But yeah, it is a fact. Live with that.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain Tracy]

Fuck you.

But yeah, it is a fact. Live with that.

Timo Saloniemi

The only fact of value demonstrated conclusively from your hostile retort is that of illustrating the foibles of expressing oneself with monosyllabic out-crying, when unwilling to answer a direct interrogative; which, could conclusively expose the veracity - or, lack thereof - of your post.

 

[1001001]

Fuck you.

But yeah, it is a fact. Live with that.

Timo Saloniemi

Pretty much no grey area here. You have a formal warning for flaming. Comments to PM.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

What happened? Why is Timo's name crossed out? I thought he was our lovable contrarian.

Edit: I can guess he was suspended. Temporarily I hope.

 

[J.T.B.]

I thought he was our lovable contrarian.

Did you find something lovable about that last reply?

 

[1001001]

Moving on...

 

[Neopeius]

That was a fantastically enjoyable read!

I also read the commentaries contributed by the other member's of your group; and, I was impressed with the high level of cogency and thoughtfulness exhibited through their writings - a very special group of minds; no doubt!

Thank you for sharing!

Makes it all worthwhile. Thank you.

One other writer's point-of-interest with regard to Dagger of the Mind:

The character of Dr. Tristan Adams serves as a wonderfully powerful example of the lessor-know and lessor-played antagonist archetype: the Anti-Villain - being: a villain that portrays themselves as altruistic, while concealing a sinister character which is secretly motivated by, and, working towards an otherwise nefarious goal.

The actor, James Gregory, provides us with a convincing and potent illustrative demonstration of the fine character nuances of expressing the Anti-Villian; versus, Micheal Strong's equally outstanding and masterful portrayal of the more commonly encountered Tragic Villian; in Dr. Roger Korby.

Two very similar episodes in a lot of ways, though the group general was more impressed with Dagger.

It's nice to read a review from someone who liked the show.

I take it Dagger is not well regarded?

That was very interesting! I’d like to read their other TOS reviews, but I couldn’t find them.

At the bottom of that post, there is a Star Trek tag, which you can click (the same goes for any of the other tags -- we tag all of the writers and directors so one can see all of the appropriate articles at once.) Sorry for the confusion!

Our review of "The Menagerie" goes up day-after-tomorrow. A lot of 5s and 4.5s, but one 3.

 

[Captain Tracy]

Makes it all worthwhile. Thank you.

Believe me, the pleasure of reading the commentaries from your group was all mine.

Two very similar episodes in a lot of ways, though the group general was more impressed with Dagger.

Very similar stories indeed; hence, my pointing to the distinct, yet subtle differences, between the use of the anti-villain, Dr. Adams; and, the use of the tragic-villain, Dr. Korby, in story-telling.

While the Dr. Korby character's misguided ultimate end-goal was clearly stated in the dialog; however, the ultimate end-goal of Dr. Adams - other his immediate goal of escaping discovery by Kirk of what he has been up to - either was never stated, or, simply has eluded me.

Unless I've completely missed something in the story, IMHO, the ultimate end-goal of Dr. Adams shouldn't simply have been to gain ultimate power and totalitarian control over of a population of lunatics on an isolated colony; and, escape detection by Kirk - unless of course, Dr. Adams was in violation of more than just probing into - and fiddling around with - the prisoner-patient's minds.

And, if Dr. Adam's were to gain absolute control over the prison-colony - as it appears he had - what of it? Where would he ultimately take this? We know Dr. Korby's big end-game plan; but, in the case of Dr. Adams, we never learn why this would be a justified motivation for his character, and, where he intends to go with all this.

Have you any thoughts of what Dr. Adams' ultimate end-goal was - or could - have been?

 

[Neopeius]

Unless I've completely missed something in the story, IMHO, the ultimate end-goal of Dr. Adams shouldn't simply be to gain ultimate power and totalitarian control over of a population of lunatics on an isolated colony; and, escape detection by Kirk - unless of course, Dr. Adams was in violation of more than just probing into - and fiddling around with - the prisoner-patient's minds.

Have you any thoughts of what Dr. Adams' ultimate end-goal was - or could - have been?

Given Lord Acton's maxim, I don't think he would be forever happy in a small pond. If indeed the Spinrad story I referenced in my section of the article was an inspiration, then Adams would be interested in running the entire galaxy... subtlely.

On the other hand, maybe he just dug being in all the medical journals.

(One of those damned "one d" Adamses. Gomez and Morticia wouldn't be seen dead with him. Nor Lurch for that matter (which is why he palled around with Dr. Korby instead.))

 

[fireproof78]

Have you any thoughts of what Dr. Adams' ultimate end-goal was - or could - have been?

Power and control. Start small, perfect it, and control the right person to demonstrate your genius.

 

[Captain Tracy]

Given Lord Acton's maxim, I don't think he would be forever happy in a small pond.

Agreed.

Whereas, Dr. Korby's end-goal presents a potentially immediate threat on a grand scale, coupled with, the capacity for initiation - if he were to gain control of The Enterprise and escape Exo III - can you see the potential of a greater galactic threat from Dr. Adams and his stationary mind-control chair - which needs to be plugged into a wall socket ?

Power and control. Start small, perfect it, and control the right person to demonstrate your genius.

Also agreed; however, once that goal has been achieved, where and how can Dr. Adams possibly take his plan for expanded control and his plug-in chair further than the limitations of the confines of the penal-colony itself?

To confound such a plan further, every person sent to Tantalus V has been classified as being: Criminally Insane; and, even if deemed rehabilitated and released, these people would not make for an ideal choice of viable puppets under Adam's control - nor would they likely be foreseen to be reasonably installed in any future office of influence and power in society; based on their documented criminally insane background - imho.

That's why I am failing to see where and how Adams can possibly take things to a greater end-goal, given the limitations imposed by his situation and tools; which limits the amount of agency the Dr. Adams' character has.

Perhaps you, or someone else, has some ideas?