News Alec Baldwin Accidentally Shoots & Kills Cinematographer, Wounds Director with Prop Gun

[Owain Taggart]

Directors are typically responsible for what goes on on set at an "operational" level.

Yeah, and with Assistant Directors, the buck stops with them in regards to firearm safety. They're supposed to be the last check to prevent accidents from these from happening. The AD is likely never going to be working on a movie again. It sounds like they cheaped out by hiring an inexperienced armorer who should never have been in charge in the first place, and then when previous incidents occurred, the AD failed to stop the production, which reeks of carelessness by the AD.

 

[shapeshifter]

Just know that there is a lot of misinformation going around right now on how movie guns work. Please do not take anything you see on Twitter at face value. (A lot of media articles are getting some industry things factually wrong too.)

Yes. CBS News This Morning first called the gun a "prop gun", but in a quote of what someone at the scene said happened, the amoror handed Baldwin a gun and said: "Cold gun on the set!"

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't know. Not far from where I live there is a bridge that cost five lives, they didn't stop building the bridge after any of these losses, which happened separately.

I'm not sure that's a valid comparison at all. To start with, that bridge was probably a lot more necessary than a movie is.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Yes. CBS News This Morning first called the gun a "prop gun", but in a quote of what someone at the scene said happened, the amoror handed Baldwin a gun and said: "Cold gun on the set!"

That's because it was a prop gun. Prop is short for "property," whether it's a non-functional rubber or plastic replica or an actual firearm loaded with blank cartridges.

 

[publiusr]

Hollywood is ahead of you on that one - the legal entity making the film is "Rust Movie Productions, LLC" which will fold into bankruptcy...

LLC’s should be banned. I can see wanting to protect assets..but it encourages abuse.

 

[KennyB]

Does anyone think this movie will be shut down? How in the world could they every finish filming it.

Only 3 weeks into filming I was wondering the same......

 

[Non Sync]

Companies are formed just for the specific production. They will usually lease or rent office equipment, just so there are no physical assets left at the end of the production. I remember learning that they will rent a fax machine for several years. Even if it is cheaper to buy it, they do not want to deal with the liquidation of it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

LLC’s should be banned. I can see wanting to protect assets..but it encourages abuse.

LLCs aren't some sneaky conspiracy. They are a recognized (and quite legal) form of organizing a business.

 

[publiusr]

There is this trucking company that isn’t own directly by the grocery warehouse, even though the name is plastered on the side. The actual LLC is in small print, and the drivers are chided if they say they work for “WF” I’ll call it. Some of the dollys for the double trailers were badge welded. Thankfully they have newer equipment now…but if you are shielded from lawsuits…why not use shoddy equipment?

 

[J.T.B.]

So it sounds pretty sure now that a bullet-loaded cartridge was in the gun, which seemed unthinkable when I first heard the story.

You can get away with cutting corners and complacency in some areas, but not firearms safety. There should have been multiple sets of eyes checking the loads in that gun, including, yes, the person pulling the trigger. I'm assuming this was a single-action revolver, which would mean taking the rounds out and putting them back one at a time. It might take a minute or two, big deal.

If you think about the thousands and thousands of hours of shooting blank discharges on movie and TV sets in the last hundred years, the safety record is actually really good. I don't see a need to end all blank firing with real firearms, but there needs to be a culture in place that if protocols are not followed exactly anyone on the set can -- and has the responsibility to -- shut everything down.

 

[Captaindemotion]

This has been a very thoughtful and well-discussed thread about a horrific incident. The actress Claudia Black has posted what I thought was also a thoughtful and well-informed twitter thread about her experience in handling firearms on film sets https://twitter.com/theclaudiablack/status/1452219851645272080?s=21

 

[thribs]

I think she went over her character count with that.

 

[XCV330]

There was no reason, period, for a single live round to even be on that set, apart from maybe security who would not have been using the same kind of ammo, (assuming this was some single action revolver, since it was a western. I haven't read details).

 

[valkyrie013]

The problem was, they went and used the guns for fun, with live ammo, and didn't keep that ammo seperate from the "Movie" ammo. Does it happen alot? Probably, but most armouers are responsible and don't mix stuff. To much negligence in this happening.


A good case for neglegent homicide, or manslaughter for whomever left a live round in the gun. (whatever New Mexico has)

 

[XCV330]

The problem was, they went and used the guns for fun, with live ammo, and didn't keep that ammo seperate from the "Movie" ammo. Does it happen alot? Probably, but most armouers are responsible and don't mix stuff. To much negligence in this happening.


A good case for neglegent homicide, or manslaughter for whomever left a live round in the gun. (whatever New Mexico has)

Then they could have gone to a range to have fun practicing shooting. You're always supposed to treat any gun like it's loaded, but of course in movies I suppose that must be very different.

I got to be a small part a semi-pro production once where I played a terrorist who got shot up by the "hero" wielding some kind of submachine gun. I had my chest taped and squibs and fake blood balloons all over it, with the wires running down my pants leg to one of the prop people who timed off the explosions. Fortunately the submachine gun WAS a rubber-gun fake, though IIRC correctly the Beretta I was holding was real. ( Or maybe it was a BB gun. Memory distorts as it ages. This was like almost 30 years ago, and the kid directing has gone on to become a very good director so I don't want to shame him by naming the MST3k worthy affair).. But in retrospect I never checked the chamber of the pistol I was handed, and being young and stupid probably did point it here and there going bang, in between takes. Scary to think what could happen in situations like this, and did in that situation where there was a real budget and someone still got killed.

 

[Jayson1]

Why would people be shooting a gun for fun on a movie set and who would think using a gun that will be used in the movie would be a good idea? What I think its this movie seems to be set in the old west so the gun is kind of a old relic and someone thought it would be neat to shoot using a gun from back in those days. Frankly the person who was shooting it for fun if that was what happened deserves blame as well. He or she should have known to check themselves as well after using it to make sure a bullets wasn't still in the chamber. Did they forget how many bullets they put in and loose count how many shots they took, I wonder.

 

[valkyrie013]

Being former military, it is drilled into ones head, for Weeks, Don't point the gun at anything you don't intend to shoot, and keep your booger finger off the trigger till then. Even blanks can be harmful, look at Brandon Lee, a blank killed him because no one checked the barrel to see if there was anything in there after the previous use.

As said in a previous post by the armorour, you never point the gun at a person almost ever in a movie, Alec pointing it at anybody, and especially with him pulling the trigger while aimed any anybody, even if you just flagging somebody by mistake, was utterly wrong. Was it mistake by Alec? Yes. Did he not follow any of the gun rules when you have a gun, well anywhere? Absolutely yes. Complacency gets people killed.

99.9% of these accidents, injury's, and even deaths can be prevented ( can't say 100% because shit does happen even if you do all the right things)

Being old west, it was a revolver, which is easy to unload. hell transporting a gun, loaded, is another mountain sized F'up.. A crimped blank and a live round look completly different, in the front AND in the back, and the weight of it. You would have to almost do it intentially.

 

[marillion]

The problem was, they went and used the guns for fun, with live ammo, and didn't keep that ammo seperate from the "Movie" ammo. Does it happen alot? Probably, but most armouers are responsible and don't mix stuff. To much negligence in this happening.


A good case for neglegent homicide, or manslaughter for whomever left a live round in the gun. (whatever New Mexico has)

This article talks about possible legal actions. New York Post

I heard from a friend in the industry over the weekend, who has quite a bit of experience in front of and behind the scenes. She was approached to be the assistant prop manager for Rust, and declined the job because she had only very limited experience working with props. She's speculating that they ended up hiring someone who also had little to know experience. So take that for what you will.

 

[Jayson1]

Being former military, it is drilled into ones head, for Weeks, Don't point the gun at anything you don't intend to shoot, and keep your booger finger off the trigger till then. Even blanks can be harmful, look at Brandon Lee, a blank killed him because no one checked the barrel to see if there was anything in there after the previous use.

As said in a previous post by the armorour, you never point the gun at a person almost ever in a movie, Alec pointing it at anybody, and especially with him pulling the trigger while aimed any anybody, even if you just flagging somebody by mistake, was utterly wrong. Was it mistake by Alec? Yes. Did he not follow any of the gun rules when you have a gun, well anywhere? Absolutely yes. Complacency gets people killed.

99.9% of these accidents, injury's, and even deaths can be prevented ( can't say 100% because shit does happen even if you do all the right things)

I was wondering if he was pointing in that direction because they were trying to film a stylish shot were it looks like it's pointed at the cameras or something. Filmmakers I guess would know better at what they might have been trying to film in that moment. Also if you think the gun isn't loaded I would assume the idea of pointing a gun at a person might not seem like a bad idea in that situation if you were as I questioned just trying to get a cool shot or something. Maybe their wasn't even suppose to be blanks in the gun during that moment.

 

[valkyrie013]

Apparently, They were firing the gun at the camera for a shot. but with that, why was ANYBODY in the line of fire? why was it pointed in a direction that had Any people even remotely in the area?
And apparently they went to lunch, came back and shot the shot. Where was the gun? who had it? WHY was it loaded through lunch? WHY wasn't it rechecked before the shot?
I feel bad for the Husband and kid, but they are going to get a BIG Paycheck, and ALOT of people should never work in the industry again, maybe even civil or maybe even criminal charges brought.