Spoilers Discovery and the Novelverse - TV show discussion thread
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
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Additionally, the two Yesterday books have ties to the so-called 1980s "novelverse," much of which has been contradicted by later canon, so I can see why someone wouldn't expect them to "count" anymore.Time for Yesterday I kinda side-eye because it features a number of stars, including Alpha Centauri B, going nova due to the malfunctioning Guardian just before Star Trek II, and I never understood the novel to push the reset button on that. That said, nothing in canon contradicts the stellar events.
Her unpublished (and mostly unwritten) follow-up trilogy would have fit with canon. (It even features an appearance by Dulmer and Lucsly.) Had it been published circa 2006-7, I don't think anyone would have questioned the place of five book series in novelverse continuity. I think it's the age of the books that prompted that reader's question -- the assumption being, if it's old, it doesn't count, not understanding that writers are often in dialogue with one another through their works across decades.
To be honest, there was some concern, editorially, about whether modern readers would be familiar with those books, but nobody ever told me NOT to reference them, so I went with it. I figured that while some older books may have faded from memory, those books in particular were probably still remembered fondly. (Heck, I believe "Yesterday's Son" was the first Trek novel to ever hit the NYT Bestseller List.)
Plus, on a sentimental level, Ann had just passed away and it just didn't feel right not to acknowledge her work.
True.
The one recurring element from the 80s novels I'd like to see return, because there's no reason I can think of that it can't, is Makropyrios. I don't believe we even had a location for the university, so that should remain vague.
Michael mentioned it in The Tears of Eridanus (though I've no idea if that's "in" or not, or if "in" even applies in its case).
Well, if there are only 365 days in a Gregorian year, and the Gregorian calendar is the one employed by the paramilitary of the United Federation of Planets, then I'm sure someone could probably schedule a realistic day-by-day arrangement of every TOS episode event, reaching the conclusion that not every TOS novel since could fit in the space between, even discounting the ones explicitly overridden by canon.
I basically just did that (but without the explicit focus on episodes) and with a bit of creative thinking it actually works out fairly well. Although I didn‘t include any of the Bantam books and a very small number of stories that just don‘t fit with the rest of TOS stories. I even have space left in 2266, because everyone wants to write about Chekov…
This reminds me a bit of my project on twitter which is a real time posting of all the missions on my Litverse based TOS timeline (https://startreklitverse.com/the-five-year-mission--month-by-month.php). Each story is being posted about over the course of five years. I’m just past ‘Bread and Circuses’ on the novel Twilight’s End.
www.twitter.com/startrek5ym
Someone from featured in the novelverse is showing up in the Lower Decks season finale...
Sonya Gomez, now Captain of a refit Excelsior-class ship. I wonder if they'll drop an SCE reference?
No yellow uniform color? Aww.
About the ship in question....
It's the Obena-class USS Archimedes.
So it may be loosely BASED on the Excelsior - a class which, according to Mike McMahan, is itself still in service - but it is not in fact AN Excelsior.
So it may be loosely BASED on the Excelsior - a class which, according to Mike McMahan, is itself still in service - but it is not in fact AN Excelsior.
The Starfleet emblem on the bottom of the saucer has a gold/yellow oval. Archimedes was an engineer and physicist among other things. So it might be an SCE ship?
Technically, I believed the Cerritos was one.
I used to try and do this - work out a way to get everything to fit! Yeah, didn't work and I often found myself trying to fudge the story more than just enjoying it...
For what its worth my current take is to treat the 5-year mission as a period of time in constant flux (maybe due to one of the temporal wars etc) In my head-cannon it works out as below:
1. The TOS episodes all 'happen' but when and in what order is constantly changing (production / airdate / blish / books that indicate a different order for eps and to account for all the contradictory dates given for eps)
2. TAS episodes 'happen' most of the time at the end of TOS but sometimes mixed in and sometimes not at all.
3. The novels and comic 'happen' as I am reading them and continue to have 'happened' until contradicted at which point they didn't 'happen'
With the amount of contradictions between eps, novels, comics etc this way I get to enjoy each one as I experience it as part of a whole with the contradictions simply a result of the temporal mess this period is in
Yes, Operations/Engineering.
I try not to sweat the “how does everything happen in universe” question. I mean, some novels are actively contradictory (names and career progressions of certain characters, until Enterprise, there were the various explanations for the differences in Klingon makeup, the novels written in the 80s on the belief there was a second five year mission between TOS and TMP, etc.), so if I’m pressed, I look at it as not everything is taking place in the same timeline, but for the most part, I figure out broadly where the story feels right, slot it in, and don’t care how much of a mess it makes the idea of ALL the episodes and novels happening in the same five year stretch.
I mean, if they haven’t already, surely TOS is coming up on the point where, even accepting the idea that events from multiple stories are taking place together, with each one just focusing on the matters related to their own story, the Enterprise crew has had more than five years worth of mission within their “five year mission.” Especially if you factor in the various comics over the years as well.
It’s one of those “I remind myself it’s fiction and I don’t have to worry about how these people can even have time to sleep with everything happening” kind of things.
I mean, if they haven’t already, surely TOS is coming up on the point where, even accepting the idea that events from multiple stories are taking place together, with each one just focusing on the matters related to their own story, the Enterprise crew has had more than five years worth of mission within their “five year mission.” Especially if you factor in the various comics over the years as well.
It’s one of those “I remind myself it’s fiction and I don’t have to worry about how these people can even have time to sleep with everything happening” kind of things.
It's been many years since I read them: what ties did it have and how were those decanonized?
Every adventure fits, because Star Trek TOS takes place in a temporal version of the Discovery Turbolift Funhouse™I used to try and do this - work out a way to get everything to fit! Yeah, didn't work and I often found myself trying to fudge the story more than just enjoying it...
For what its worth my current take is to treat the 5-year mission as a period of time in constant flux (maybe due to one of the temporal wars etc) In my head-cannon it works out as below:
1. The TOS episodes all 'happen' but when and in what order is constantly changing (production / airdate / blish / books that indicate a different order for eps and to account for all the contradictory dates given for eps)
2. TAS episodes 'happen' most of the time at the end of TOS but sometimes mixed in and sometimes not at all.
3. The novels and comic 'happen' as I am reading them and continue to have 'happened' until contradicted at which point they didn't 'happen'
With the amount of contradictions between eps, novels, comics etc this way I get to enjoy each one as I experience it as part of a whole with the contradictions simply a result of the temporal mess this period is in
CT Phipps Insane Time Travel Ridden Chronology for the Federation
I have a more deranged idea. All of TOS happened like it looked like. However, the Temporal Cold War updated all of the technology and looks plus made new adventures. In my "personal canon", there was no NXT-Enterprise (it was probably The Constitution) but that was another thing made by the vagaries of time travel.
Ditto Discovery. In the original timeline, Michael Burnham probably lived a perfectly normal life with her parents but this one was altered by events related to some force providing them time travel technology beforehand. Probably Section 31 trying to alter their own past to make the Federation stronger but instead making the psychotic Control.
All of this doesn't change MUCH ("Yesterday's Enterprise" shows how flexible the timeline of the Federation can be--they were all on the same ship still) but it changes enough that the Federation of Picard's time is SLIGHTLY more cynical.
War with the Klingons and Section 31 being killed to the last man (ironically eliminating the one from the novels) makes everyone swear a lot more too.
Other things I hold to be canon
* The five year mission of the Enterprise includes both the 25th Anniversary game, Judgement Rites, and TAS.
* Elite Force 1, 2, Starfleet Academy, Klingon Academy, and Bridge Commander are also canon because I love video games.
I have a more deranged idea. All of TOS happened like it looked like. However, the Temporal Cold War updated all of the technology and looks plus made new adventures. In my "personal canon", there was no NXT-Enterprise (it was probably The Constitution) but that was another thing made by the vagaries of time travel.
Ditto Discovery. In the original timeline, Michael Burnham probably lived a perfectly normal life with her parents but this one was altered by events related to some force providing them time travel technology beforehand. Probably Section 31 trying to alter their own past to make the Federation stronger but instead making the psychotic Control.
All of this doesn't change MUCH ("Yesterday's Enterprise" shows how flexible the timeline of the Federation can be--they were all on the same ship still) but it changes enough that the Federation of Picard's time is SLIGHTLY more cynical.
War with the Klingons and Section 31 being killed to the last man (ironically eliminating the one from the novels) makes everyone swear a lot more too.
Other things I hold to be canon
* The five year mission of the Enterprise includes both the 25th Anniversary game, Judgement Rites, and TAS.
* Elite Force 1, 2, Starfleet Academy, Klingon Academy, and Bridge Commander are also canon because I love video games.
I love those games too, but I struggle to reconcile the "SHOOT EVERYTHING!" ethos with TV Trek.