Books Whose Information Became Canon

[David cgc]

I can't believe I didn't remember this when we were talking about Mirror Universe stuff, but the term "Terran Empire" rather than just "Empire," came from the Shatnerverse novels before its first use on-screen in "In a Mirror, Darkly," likely also brought over by the Reeves-Stevenses.

 

[Christopher]

I can't believe I didn't remember this when we were talking about Mirror Universe stuff, but the term "Terran Empire" rather than just "Empire," came from the Shatnerverse novels before its first use on-screen in "In a Mirror, Darkly," likely also brought over by the Reeves-Stevenses.

Which I feel was a mistake. When DS9 had Alliance members use "Terran" as a label for humans, it was in the manner of an ethnic slur used by outsiders -- in the same vein as a lot of science fiction using it as a term aliens apply to humans, e.g. the Romulan Commander in "The Enterprise Incident" and young Spock's bullies in "Yesteryear." So I think it was missing the point to repurpose it into the Empire's term for themselves. And Discovery has made it worse by treating "Terran" as a label used exclusively for Mirror humans.

 

[David Mack]

Which I feel was a mistake. When DS9 had Alliance members use "Terran" as a label for humans, it was in the manner of an ethnic slur used by outsiders -- in the same vein as a lot of science fiction using it as a term aliens apply to humans, e.g. the Romulan Commander in "The Enterprise Incident" and young Spock's bullies in "Yesteryear." So I think it was missing the point to repurpose it into the Empire's term for themselves. And Discovery has made it worse by treating "Terran" as a label used exclusively for Mirror humans.

I think Discovery's greatest sin against the Mirror Universe was having the Terrans use "Terra Firma" as a war cry.

"Dry Land!" as a war cry? Did no one in that room know enough Latin to realize the phrase they wanted was "Terra Victor!"?

 

[Christopher]

I think Discovery's greatest sin against the Mirror Universe was having the Terrans use "Terra Firma" as a war cry.

"Dry Land!" as a war cry? Did no one in that room know enough Latin to realize the phrase they wanted was "Terra Victor!"?

It's more literally "solid ground," and I can see that being symbolic of the Empire as a strong, immovable foundation. It seems mundane (literally), but no more so than the root of the word "fascism." A fasces is just a bundle of wooden sticks. But it symbolizes strength through unity, and authoritarian rhetoric emphasizes strength and firmness.

Anyway, it's easily surpassed by the way DSC treats Mirror humans as a separate species called Terrans, even to the point of having Georgiou refer derisively to Culber as "human." Not to mention having nocturnal eyesight (which they never had before). Ummm, they're exact doubles of individual humans! How can they not be the same species? Not to mention that TOS, DS9, and ENT all referred to Mirror Earthlings as human.

 

[JD]

Yeah, as much as I've grown to really enjoy DSC, they have made some odd choices.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Thanks for this fantastic thread.

And when thinking of canon versus canon, I always think of the Elsewords logo, "This is an imaginary story but aren't they all?"



It's all canon in some universe.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm reading a scan of Leslie Fish's fanzine novel The Weight, and guess what? Among a list of Captain Pike's crew (deceased in a bizarro alternate timeline) is the name Una. From 1970something.

So much for her being named for Una McCormack? Or perhaps it's an incredibly unlikely coincidence??

 

[Greg Cox]

I'm reading a scan of Leslie Fish's fanzine novel The Weight, and guess what? Among a list of Captain Pike's crew (deceased in a bizarro alternate timeline) is the name Una. From 1970something.

So much for her being named for Una McCormack? Or perhaps it's an incredibly unlikely coincidence??

An amazing coincidence! I was there was Dave Mack came up with the name "Una" while we were plotting the LEGACIES trilogy. And it was definitely intended, as least in part, as a tip of the hat to Una McCormack.

Guess Dave wasn't the first person to think that it would be cute to name Number One "Una." Which, when you think of it, kinda follows since "Una" = "One."

 

[Una McCormack]

the name Una. From 1970something.

I have also been around from 1970something.

 

[Indysolo]

Which, when you think of it, kinda follows since "Una" = "One."

 

[F. King Daniel]

An amazing coincidence! I was there was Dave Mack came up with the name "Una" while we were plotting the LEGACIES trilogy. And it was definitely intended, as least in part, as a tip of the hat to Una McCormack.

Guess Dave wasn't the first person to think that it would be cute to name Number One "Una." Which, when you think of it, kinda follows since "Una" = "One."

I guess Leslie Fish came up with it first, and likely the same way Dave did. Kinda weird and fun.

 

[David cgc]

I wonder if the backstory about Number One being from a planet that ranked people based on intelligence and she was literally named Number One because she was the top achiever in her society was already out there by 1970-something,

 

[Una McCormack]

a planet that ranked people based on intelligence and she was literally named Number One because she was the top achiever in her society

Relatable.

 

[JoeZhang]

Must get really complex further down:

Lt. Three hundred and twenty five million reporting for duty!

 

[Enterprise1701]

Well, is that any worse than the Bynars? Thanks to them, we literally have an episode titled "11001001".

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm reading a scan of Leslie Fish's fanzine novel The Weight, and guess what? Among a list of Captain Pike's crew (deceased in a bizarro alternate timeline) is the name Una. From 1970something.

So much for her being named for Una McCormack? Or perhaps it's an incredibly unlikely coincidence??

Probably coincidence.

In a fan story I wrote after ST III (and upgraded quickly, just before publishing, when "The Voyage Home" was announced), I gave Number One the surname "Certaine", by checking the thesaurus for synonyms of "one". I have several Leslie Fish fan stories due to her fondness for Andorians (with three genders), but I had forgotten her use of "Una".

I wonder if the backstory about Number One being from a planet that ranked people based on intelligence and she was literally named Number One because she was the top achiever in her society was already out there by 1970-something,

That idea originally came from the backstory Majel Barrett wrote for herself, in her preparation to play Number One in the pilot. DC Fontana used some of that in "Vulcan's Glory". And between those, various fans speculated in "The Best of Trek" books.

 

[Christopher]

Probably coincidence.

I wouldn't even call it coincidence, since it's one of the most obvious names that a Western, Anglophone writer would hit upon if they went looking for a feminine given name that was a wordplay on "Number One." Two or more people independently reaching the same destination is not a coincidence if external circumstances tend to guide everyone in the same direction. It's not like there are a lot of candidates, after all. (Although there are a few, including Prima, Mona in some derivations, Hana in Korean, and Winona. But "Una" is the one whose meaning would be most obvious to the audience.)

Though I find it contrived myself, given that "Number One" is a generic term of address for a first officer, so why should this particular first officer coincidentally happen to have a name that means "One?"

 

[Greg Cox]

Well, one of the reasons we had to give her an actual name in the LEGACIES trilogy is because the book features her at various points in her life, before and after her stint as Pike's first officer. You can get away with simply calling Pike's first officer "Number One" for an entire book, but young "Lieutenant Number One" and later "Captain Number One" don't quite work.

And, at that point, there'd been so much mystique built up around the fact that she was only known as "Number One" that, IMO, it would have been anti-climatic to reveal that she was actually named . . . Susan or Alice or Natasha or whatever.

More plausible perhaps, but not nearly as fun.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

On the other hand, Get Smart went a full 5 seasons (4 on NBC and a 5th on CBS), and a sequel series on Fox (in which she'd been elected to the House of Representatives!), without ever revealing 99's name.

 

[Christopher]

On the other hand, Get Smart went a full 5 seasons (4 on NBC and a 5th on CBS), and a sequel series on Fox (in which she'd been elected to the House of Representatives!), without ever revealing 99's name.

That's easier to get away with on a sitcom.

And you're forgetting the TV reunion movie Get Smart Again!, which preceded (and was much better than) the revival series. (John DeLancie was in it!) Also the feature film The Nude Bomb, though 99 wasn't in that and was only briefly referenced. And the Steve Carrell/Anne Hathaway reboot, but I never saw that.