At what point did Riker stop beeing a renamed Will Decker?

[Eckauskas]

Beyond the Ilia/Troi dynamic with the respective characters at the start, I didn't think there was a whole lot of similarity, honestly. The power dynamics were totally different. Decker had already "made it" but was now a demoted Captain, seething inside that he was better equipped to handle the mission than an Admiral who came in throwing his weight and reputation around. In Decker's mind, Kirk had to prove to HIM that he deserved to be there, and honestly I don't remember Kirk really making a decision in the film that would have. He usually made a bad decision and lucked out.

Decker only lost that anger only when he found something more important to him to focus on - bringing what was left of Ilia out of the probe. He saved humanity from V'Ger almost as a side benefit to his obsession with her/it.

Riker came in a fast-rising ambitious upstart who was trying to prove to everyone that he was good enough to be a Captain - competing not with the CO, but competing to become the next CO (of that ship or more likely, another) As the series wore on, he proved himself to the crew but lost his sense of ambition, which depending on your personal opinions as a fan is either ridiculous character regression, or merely an acceptable shift in his goals once he got there.

I would say it was no later than The Icarus Factor, when Riker was offered the Aries and stayed - that's when he became the anti-Decker. There's no way Decker, in that situation, wouldn't have jumped ship to get as far away from Kirk as possible, no matter what.

I choose to believe Will found a 'home' of sorts on the Enterprise and his decision to stay was down to how he felt about the ship, the crew and his captain rather than a lack of ambition. There's also the school of thinking behind being the first officer of the flagship is a better position to be in than the captain of some irrelevant Oberth-class starship on the edge of Federation space doing nothing of note.

 

[Christopher]

I choose to believe Will found a 'home' of sorts on the Enterprise and his decision to stay was down to how he felt about the ship, the crew and his captain rather than a lack of ambition.

Michael Piller based Riker's debate about leaving the Enterprise in "The Best of Both Worlds" on his own debate about whether to stay with TNG or leave to run his own show. He ended up making the same decision as Riker, that staying in the place where he was personally and professionally fulfilled was more important than pursuing career advancement merely for the sake of career advancement.

After all, ambition isn't a very Federation-y value. Life shouldn't be about trying to beat other people to the top, it should be about pursuing a calling that enriches you as a person and benefits others. And it's not like people in a post-monetary society are chasing after promotions for the sake of higher salaries or bonus packages.

Personally, I've never understood people who feel the need to get promoted out of a job they love and excel at in pursuit of some arbitrary belief that a career must always move forward. If you've found a place where you're satisfied, it's okay to stay there.

 

[Orphalesion]

Whoa, non sequitur. "Blood and Fire" is, as Therin said, a script that David Gerrold wrote for Star Trek: The Next Generation when he was on its staff in 1987. It was rejected for homophobic reasons (it was an AIDS allegory and acknowledged that gay people exist), and that was a factor in his departure from TNG, if I recall right. Gerrold did eventually turn it into a novel, but as the third installment of his Star Wolf series. He also turned it into an episode of a Trek fan film series.

Well, excuse me for misreading something on my phone.

But cool, then I'll probably look into it!

Right, now I remember it's the AIDS allegory episode,right?

 

[JesterFace]

Personally, I've never understood people who feel the need to get promoted out of a job they love and excel at in pursuit of some arbitrary belief that a career must always move forward. If you've found a place where you're satisfied, it's okay to stay there.

This is what I've thought about Riker when people start questioning why he didn't take his own command soon as it was offered. Perhaps he simply liked the ship and people around him and didn't want to leave. Maybe he liked the Enterprise so much he was waiting for Picard to get promoted to Admiral? Also, Deanna was there, maybe Riker was hoping something might happen with her at some point.

 

[Eckauskas]

Michael Piller based Riker's debate about leaving the Enterprise in "The Best of Both Worlds" on his own debate about whether to stay with TNG or leave to run his own show. He ended up making the same decision as Riker, that staying in the place where he was personally and professionally fulfilled was more important than pursuing career advancement merely for the sake of career advancement.

After all, ambition isn't a very Federation-y value. Life shouldn't be about trying to beat other people to the top, it should be about pursuing a calling that enriches you as a person and benefits others. And it's not like people in a post-monetary society are chasing after promotions for the sake of higher salaries or bonus packages.

Personally, I've never understood people who feel the need to get promoted out of a job they love and excel at in pursuit of some arbitrary belief that a career must always move forward. If you've found a place where you're satisfied, it's okay to stay there.

All very good points. It's not as if he needs to pursue a command to provide a better lifestyle for himself or his family. He was happy onboard the Enterprise and it certainly never harmed the series to have him stick around.

I'm glad we never saw Madden as the XO beyond that deleted scene from Nemesis. Having someone else as Picards right hand on the Enterprise would just have felt wrong.

 

[Christopher]

I'm glad we never saw Madden as the XO beyond that deleted scene from Nemesis. Having someone else as Picards right hand on the Enterprise would just have felt wrong.

I would've been fine with seeing someone else, but just putting another white American male in the role showed a lack of imagination.

In the novels, Worf became Picard's first officer after NEM.

 

[Eckauskas]

I would've been fine with seeing someone else, but just putting another white American male in the role showed a lack of imagination.

In the novels, Worf became Picard's first officer after NEM.

I think Worf would've made more sense than anyone else being shoehorned into the role, but it still wouldn't have felt natural. Generally removing one or two of the more popular cast members means the end of a TV show. I know NEM turned out to be the end of TNG but they weren't really to know that at the time. If it hadn't failed like it did, who knows where they'd have gone next.

 

[Christopher]

Generally removing one or two of the more popular cast members means the end of a TV show.

Not always. Lots of shows have heavy cast turnover and keep going -- Law & Order, CSI, DC's Legends of Tomorrow.

Although I don't know why we're talking about this, since the movie in question came out nine years after the TV series ended. And NEM was pretty clearly designed to work as a finale, what with the crew breaking up and Data dying. If the movie had been so wildly successful that they'd done a fifth movie anyway, I'm sure they'd have found a way to include Riker, Troi, and Titan in it, like they did with Sulu and Excelsior in TUC.