The Lesley Crusher idea

[publiusr]

So I agree; Leslie Crusher would have been subject to the same writers and show runners as Wesley was, so she'd be just as uneven and disliked a character as he was.

Maybe not. I actually think some of the hostility would have softened. The first season did have a family friendly feel…casting makes a difference. My Neighbor Tortoro also came to be during this time.

While 1982 was sci-fi at its most dangerous…with Willow and The Princess Bride…the late 80’s almost felt like a different world.

 

[Phoenix219]

Weirdly, I have a mental image that fans might have actually liked Wesley if they'd given an explanation for his wunderkind status.

He would have benefited more from the Bashir Augment plot than Bashir.

Mind you, you'd have to have Beverly go to prison after its revealed.

That would have been an interesting way to usher in Pulaski....

 

[Captain Crow]

Part of the issue is the fans who hated Wesley were often going from the view that they wanted to see themselves in Riker and Picard not Wesley.

I don't like Wesley because he's an irritating "child genius" trope character.

I've always hated that type of character. Even when I was the age that they're supposedly suppose to appeal to. In fact, when I was somewhere between 7 and 10 years old, I cheered and applauded when Adric was killed off in Doctor Who.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I don't like Wesley because he's an irritating "child genius" trope character.

I've always hated that type of character. Even when I was the age that they're supposedly suppose to appeal to. In fact, when I was somewhere between 7 and 10 years old, I cheered and applauded when Adric was killed off in Doctor Who.

That's more or less exactly what I meant from making the Picard and Riker comparison.

 

[Charles Phipps]

There was never any indication whatsoever that genetic engineering was illegal in the Federation until that idea was retconned by DS9 "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" In the world of TNG, a genetically enhanced Wesley could have come from some place like Darwin Station where genetic experimentation was par for the course.

Kor

Well, we're magically transporting a plotline back in time so it would be illegal just to provide drama and angst for poor Wesley. As we see with "The First Duty" (Or Stand by Me) the issue was Will is perfectly good as an actor even as an adolescent, he just wasn't given much to work with.

But yes, even if it wasn't illegal, Wesley being modified would at least blunt some of the "we take this way too seriously" Trek objections to a kid as an Ensign.

 

[Takeru]

I think the problem is that too often child geniuses on tv are written as little adults and not age appropriate. Just because Wesley had an high IQ and had learned a lot about the Enterprise doesn't mean he also wasn't a 14 year old kid but he barely ever acted like one.

 

[Captain Crow]

That's more or less exactly what I meant from making the Picard and Riker comparison.

Thing is I never wanted to see myself as any of the adult characters either. I just can't stand child genius characters. Mainly because I've dealt with real life versions, most of whom were insufferable jerks, of them.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You can't call a child Leslie and not expect bullies to call her, or worse "him", Lezzie.

Fish in a barrel.

 

[DonIago]

Thing is I never wanted to see myself as any of the adult characters either. I just can't stand child genius characters. Mainly because I've dealt with real life versions, most of whom were insufferable jerks, of them.

This is why I feel that seeing how Wesley interacted, or failed to interact, with his actual peers could have been illuminating and perhaps made the audience care a bit more.

OTOH, the way he was portrayed I could see creating a vicious cycle: other kids ostracize him for his intellect, so he starts hanging out with his mom's coworkers, and then his peers further ostracize him because he's becoming the senior staff's pet project.

Whether or not it's a frustration point that Jake didn't necessarily have much to do in later seasons of DS9, at least he had one good friend his age (more might have been better?), and wasn't really shown to interact with the senior staff to the exclusion of his peers.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

his is why I feel that seeing how Wesley interacted, or failed to interact, with his actual peers could have been illuminating and perhaps made the audience care a bit more.

Honestly, IMO if we had more episodes like When the Bough Breaks and The Dauphin where Wes' involvement was due to another peer characters in the episode, then it would have done wonders for Wes' popularity.

 

[Kor]

To those of us who were little kids watching TNG, Wesley basically was one of the "adults." Somebody in high school seems positively ancient to somebody in elementary school.

Kor

 

[Nerys Myk]

The writers' track record for writing women and children would not bode well for this character.

 

[Orphalesion]

To those of us who were little kids watching TNG, Wesley basically was one of the "adults." Somebody in high school seems positively ancient to somebody in elementary school.

Kor

^This. I can still remember watching episodes of assorted teenage dramas as a young child and basically thinking of them as adults.
Of course it didn't help that they often were played by adults...

I think the problem is that too often child geniuses on tv are written as little adults and not age appropriate. Just because Wesley had an high IQ and had learned a lot about the Enterprise doesn't mean he also wasn't a 14 year old kid but he barely ever acted like one.

IDK, within the limitations of the "quality" of early TNG's writing I thought Wesley was a reasonably well done representation of an awkward, sheltered teenager.
I don't really see what they could have done to make him "act like a kid" without going into cliches about teenagers.

 

[Takeru]

IDK, within the limitations of the "quality" of early TNG's writing I thought Wesley was a reasonably well done representation of an awkward, sheltered teenager.
I don't really see what they could have done to make him "act like a kid" without going into cliches about teenagers.

Not having him take over the ship in the first episode after the pilot would have been a good start. Maybe limit his appearances in some episodes to scenes in his and Beverly's quarters and have them talk about school, friends or other mundane things. Don't try to involve him with the main story in almost every episode. Create a teenaged recurring character or two as friends, give them a space to spend time, something like Ten Forward or an actual arboretum or mall set was desperately needed in season 1.
They talked so much about the civilian population of the ship, there really should have been a standing set for civilian use from the start.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I liked Wesley the Helmsman.

I think it'd be bad to remove him and the science plots. Poor Jake floundered because they decided not to make him have any real Starfleet stories.

 

[Orphalesion]

Not having him take over the ship in the first episode after the pilot would have been a good start. Maybe limit his appearances in some episodes to scenes in his and Beverly's quarters and have them talk about school, friends or other mundane things. Don't try to involve him with the main story in almost every episode. Create a teenaged recurring character or two as friends, give them a space to spend time, something like Ten Forward or an actual arboretum or mall set was desperately needed in season 1.
They talked so much about the civilian population of the ship, there really should have been a standing set for civilian use from the start.

I was suggesting exactly those exact things in another thread a few months ago (or maybe many months ago, difficult to tell with COVID) including turning Wesley into a satellite character to Dr.Crusher and Picard. But to me that's less about how the character was written as opposed to what the character was given to do.
The difficulty with Wesley's civilian adventures is of course how to tie them into the scifi plots properly so that they don't seem tacked on and, it being the late 80s, avoid them becoming 'very special episodes'

 

[Captain_Nick]

Lesley Crusher would have been accused of being a "Mary Sue" character.

The screenwriters injecting themselves into the plot, giving themselves +20 super god intelligence powers, and clumsily getting with the lead characters - ?

I remember when Mary Sue referred to good old fashioned shitty fan fiction.

 

[The Four Doctor]

I wonder how often the female Leslie would have been allowed to be n trousers rather than a dress or skirt by the producers and or the costume lady? Especially if the teen actress ends up becoming downright voluptuous by season 6 or 7 in 1992-4

 

[Orphalesion]

Lesley Crusher would have been accused of being a "Mary Sue" character.

Kor

You mean just like Wesley is accused of being a creator's pet?

 

[DonIago]

I liked Wesley the Helmsman.

I think it'd be bad to remove him and the science plots. Poor Jake floundered because they decided not to make him have any real Starfleet stories.

I disagree. I'm glad Jake didn't join Starfleet and didn't become regularly involved in Starfleet stories. I'm not sure why the possibility that Jake would join Starfleet was initially brought up (and whether they always intended not to go through with it), but having him choose not to do so was, for me, a more interesting path even if it gave him less to do in the context of the show.