What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Tim Thomason]

OK another one I have is the writers making a race so powerful that nothing can stop them, for example the Douwd. With a single thought he not only wiped out the aliens attacking the planet he was on, but every single member of that race wherever they were.

That is just so over the top ridiculous level of power. He'd probably be stronger then the Q

Most certainly not. The Douwd (Uxbridge) couldn't fight back against Troi's empathic powers, and effectively had to drown her out. He wasn't, apparently, able to reverse time on his own or bring back the dead effectively (unlike the Q, who demonstrated that multiple times). Rishon was just a simulation that he dissolved and reformed at will, but he doesn't otherwise acknowledge her as the real thing and still suffers her loss.

His guilt over the death over all Husnock further implies that that action was uncontrolled. A genocidal accident from tapping into thought powers that he usually could not access.

The Survivor shows us a powerful being, certainly, but one with many limitations and shortcomings, both self-imposed and part of its nature. His abilities pale in comparison to the Q, and I'd say he was closer to humanity than the Continuum.

Also the Klingons were by nature a warrior race so how did they find the time to do science and stuff like warp drive?

Enterprise delves deep into the Klingon backstory of a time in recent memory (as of the 22nd century) when Klingons had not adapted the warrior ethos. The warrior caste had taken over in Kolos's youth and appears to maintain that hold throughout the TOS and TNG era, but this doesn't seem the case in centuries beforehand (this also seems implied by the "Dark Times" from DS9, the ancient era when Klingons had democracy).

Science and stuff seems to date back to Kahless's time, and probably is linked to interference from other species (the oft-theorized Hur'q being the only prominent canonical example), but not necessarily so. Discovery, and to a lesser extent, Enterprise, shows us that Klingons were early masters of time travel, in an era when other powers (Vulcans) didn't believe it existed.

I've theorized before on the Vulcan-Klingon Cold War (and Hot War?) that formed from their first contact in 2016 and subsequent "Vulcan Hellos". The timing is just perfect for the recent martialization of Vulcan culture seen throughout Enterprise (undoubtedly egged on by meddlesome Romulans). But it takes two to tango: the Klingons appeared to have upended their society as well. They ended their 1200 year Emperorship (c. 2069), they got involved in crazy time hijinks (c. 2151), and the warrior caste grew and grew, to the detriment of the others.

The Klingons aren't a natural warrior race. That is a recent development, masked in part by propaganda reshaping their history. Just like Iran hasn't always been a fundamentalist Arab State. Cultures change and shift over time, and Klingons seem more adept at changing and shifting, if I understand their history right.

 

[at Quark's]

Most certainly not. The Douwd (Uxbridge) couldn't fight back against Troi's empathic powers, and effectively had to drown her out.

I'm not sure whether he simply couldn't, or whether he couldn't do so without causing her permanent harm, as he seemed greatly reluctant to cause any more permanent harm to any living being than he already had done in the past. Either way, you're right that there are things he can't do that Q probably could.

His guilt over the death over all Husnock further implies that that action was uncontrolled. A genocidal accident from tapping into thought powers that he usually could not access.

I never got that impression (that he usually would not have had such powers). I always got the impression he couldn't control his rage and did this, and couldn't undo it after he had done it. Much like someone can feel guilty for the rest of his life after shooting someone else in blind rage.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Most certainly not. The Douwd (Uxbridge) couldn't fight back against Troi's empathic powers, and effectively had to drown her out. He wasn't, apparently, able to reverse time on his own or bring back the dead effectively (unlike the Q, who demonstrated that multiple times). Rishon was just a simulation that he dissolved and reformed at will, but he doesn't otherwise acknowledge her as the real thing and still suffers her loss.

His guilt over the death over all Husnock further implies that that action was uncontrolled. A genocidal accident from tapping into thought powers that he usually could not access.

The Survivor shows us a powerful being, certainly, but one with many limitations and shortcomings, both self-imposed and part of its nature. His abilities pale in comparison to the Q, and I'd say he was closer to humanity than the Continuum.

Absolutely.

 

[dupersuper]

Yeah: Q>>>>Doud>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Humans

 

[cooleddie74]

And Trelane's species is somewhere in that Humans ---> Douwd scale.

 

[fireproof78]

And the Thasians? Plus Organians.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Organians have got to be pretty close to the top of the scale. Pure energy life forms that can simultaneously exist on the surfaces of two different planets at the same moment? That's pretty impressive.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The Douwd was nowhere near the Q.

 

[publiusr]

A Douwd might still be able to interfere with a Q if given the chance...thus my thinking that Guinan may be one....but was not able to stop the teleportation in Q Who....above the Organians, but below the Continuum...a guess. But even as a listener therecould be ways to thwart the Q. Suppose I were in rapport with all my other selves across the multiverse. I have a little power...but it is very broad. A Q is an omni power, but perhaps unique in the Omniverse.

You can therefore have a standoff even if one party seems "weaker" than another perhaps....it all depends on where you stand.

 

[oldtrekkie]

And Trelane's species is somewhere in that Humans ---> Douwd scale.

I thought Trelane was rather pathetic compared to the others, even Charlie X could destroy a ship at a distance with a thought and he was probably the weakest of them all... that is after Trelane.

 

[Mathieu]

I actually like Spot more than Spock.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I thought Trelane was rather pathetic compared to the others

That was rather the idea, actually. Trelane was a child. He wanted to keep playing, but it was time to come in.

Some have opined that Trelane needed his instrumentality, but I think that's decidedly not the case. Trelane didn't lose his powers when his machine was destroyed. On the contrary, the machine just made funny noises when it was shot. I don't think it did anything at all. It was simply there as a prop, to provide Kirk and crew with what they supposed might be there. We don't have any idea what the limits of his species' abilities were. Based on the appearance of his parents, we know only that they were non-corporeal, like the Organians, which is further evidence that their powers did not rely on any instrumentality.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Perhaps Trelane's machine was not there to help his powers but to use as a focus so he could focus how to use his powers and that was how his species trained to use them by making or finding an object to use as some kind of focus.

I wonder how many other races could compete or battle with a Q?

 

[GNDN18]

TRELANE: Any attempt at demonstrations will weigh against you with the court, and this time my instrumentality is unbreakable.
***
KIRK: Then vent your anger on me alone. I was the one who led the others. I was the one who shot out your mirror machine.
TRELANE: And did you really think that was the only medium of instrumentality at my command?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

TRELANE: Any attempt at demonstrations will weigh against you with the court, and this time my instrumentality is unbreakable.
***
KIRK: Then vent your anger on me alone. I was the one who led the others. I was the one who shot out your mirror machine.
TRELANE: And did you really think that was the only medium of instrumentality at my command?

He's a child. Is not. Is, too.

The fact that he can summon unbreakable instrumentality not even in use during the first encounter pretty much proves that his powers transcend instrumentality altogether. Trelane was fascinated by the Federation machines. Possibly, he was at the stage where he was learning about machines in god-school. I believe that Trelane overheard Kirk and Spock reason that he was using a machine, and provided one, as a toy to use while playing with his humans. His machine would have to be better than any Kirk had. At the point of the trial, Trelane is one-upping Kirk again, but now to the nth degree. It's like, "Oh, yeah? Well, times infinity!"

Kirk and Spock conclude that Trelane is using a machine because he is fallible. The possibility that his fallibility is due to his simply being immature never occurred to them. They assumed that because he was so powerful yet also fallible, he must be relying on something with capabilities beyond his own, i.e. a machine. I believe that was a false assumption, proven false in the reveal that he's actually just a child and his immaturity is actually what explains all his mistakes and shortcomings.



YMMV.

 

[GNDN18]

He's a child. Is not. Is, too.

The fact that he can summon unbreakable instrumentality not even in use during the first encounter pretty much proves that his powers transcend instrumentality altogether. Trelane was fascinated by the Federation machines. Possibly, he was at the stage where he was learning about machines in god-school. I believe that Trelane overheard Kirk and Spock reason that he was using a machine, and provided one, as a toy to use while playing with his humans. His machine would have to be better than any Kirk had. At the point of the trial, Trelane is one-upping Kirk again, but now to the nth degree. It's like, "Oh, yeah? Well, times infinity!"

Kirk and Spock conclude that Trelane is using a machine because he is fallible. The possibility that his fallibility is due to his simply being immature never occurred to them. They assumed that because he was so powerful yet also fallible, he must be relying on something with capabilities beyond his own, i.e. a machine. I believe that was a false assumption, proven false in the reveal that he's actually just a child and his immaturity is actually what explains all his mistakes and shortcomings.



YMMV.

I quite agree. Trelane used Rube Goldberg devices because it pleased him, not because he had to, and Kirk realizes the true nature of his nemesis (“In fact, you've got a lot to learn about everything, haven't you?”), just before the parents arrive.

 

[publiusr]

TRELANE: Any attempt at demonstrations will weigh against you with the court, and this time my instrumentality is unbreakable.
***
KIRK: Then vent your anger on me alone. I was the one who led the others. I was the one who shot out your mirror machine.
TRELANE: And did you really think that was the only medium of instrumentality at my command?

Krell/ Great Machine level then…that might help guard against the Q. Stargate had anti-hyperspace Attero devices and the anti-Ori Sangraal.. Have Omega power a combination of those and Trelanes machines…you might just bring a Q down or keep the continuum at bay. The Borg get that, the galaxy is toast.

 

[oldtrekkie]

I quite agree. Trelane used Rube Goldberg devices because it pleased him, not because he had to, and Kirk realizes the true nature of his nemesis (“In fact, you've got a lot to learn about everything, haven't you?”), just before the parents arrive.

Doc Brown used a lot of these machines and he wasn't a Q or a Trelane.

 

[Paul755]

The Organians have got to be pretty close to the top of the scale. Pure energy life forms that can simultaneously exist on the surfaces of two different planets at the same moment? That's pretty impressive.

More than that, they were able to stop both the Klingons and Federation dead in their tracks everywhere. I’d say they are right on par with the Q.

Where do the Prophets factor in with all of this. I mean, they have extraordinary powers and exist outside time but is their reach limited to just the Bajoran system and the wormhole.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

More than that, they were able to stop both the Klingons and Federation dead in their tracks everywhere. I’d say they are right on par with the Q.

Where do the Prophets factor in with all of this. I mean, they have extraordinary powers and exist outside time but is their reach limited to just the Bajoran system and the wormhole.

Nope. The Prophets casually hijacked Sisko's mom's entire life (on Earth on the other side of the Federation) just to ensure their Emissary would be born.