Spoilers The Imperial Thread
- Thread starter EmoBorg
- Start date
The Thrawn books make it clear that the anti-non-human bias in the Empire entirely a thing within the culture of the Imperial military, not any kind of doctrine or official policy. Mostly as a legacy of the formerly Republic Navy and Grand Army being human (mostly clones) and most (but by no means all) of the separatist forces that weren't droids being of the non-human persuasion.
And yeah, humans seem to be by far the most numerous and wide spread sentient species in the galaxy so they're bound to dominate any large galactic organisation. Even within the Jedi, which there was no shortage of diversity; the humans still clearly out numbered any other individual species.
I doubt that if say a Nautolan or a Gran showed up at in Imperial recruiter's office they'd be turned away, but at the same time they'd probably have a hard time advancing in the ranks and most likely quietly sent off to some backwater front with a high casualty rate to be forgotten.
Still, it'd be nice to see more non-humans in the Empire at least in some military capacity. I mean it is an Empire after all and one of the key features of being an Empire is that you recruit and train the locals you colonise to serve in the Empire's armed forces. Even as like flight deck techs, medics, or low level officers if not actual stormtroopers.
As a side note; I also have a pet theory that most or all of the the so called "near humans"--"aliens" that just look like humans in make-up; Pantorans, Mirialans, even Twi-Leks & Togrutas etc.--are all of human decent, from early colonists that spread through the galaxy hundreds of thousands of years ago--possibly in the pre-hyperdrive days--and adapted (naturally or otherwise) to the less than ideal habitats they found themselves on (like say genetically engineering lekku to store moisture, body fat and moderate body temperature in the particularly hot and arid conditions of Ryloth)...but that's straying into head-canony stuff.
And yeah, humans seem to be by far the most numerous and wide spread sentient species in the galaxy so they're bound to dominate any large galactic organisation. Even within the Jedi, which there was no shortage of diversity; the humans still clearly out numbered any other individual species.
I doubt that if say a Nautolan or a Gran showed up at in Imperial recruiter's office they'd be turned away, but at the same time they'd probably have a hard time advancing in the ranks and most likely quietly sent off to some backwater front with a high casualty rate to be forgotten.
Still, it'd be nice to see more non-humans in the Empire at least in some military capacity. I mean it is an Empire after all and one of the key features of being an Empire is that you recruit and train the locals you colonise to serve in the Empire's armed forces. Even as like flight deck techs, medics, or low level officers if not actual stormtroopers.
As a side note; I also have a pet theory that most or all of the the so called "near humans"--"aliens" that just look like humans in make-up; Pantorans, Mirialans, even Twi-Leks & Togrutas etc.--are all of human decent, from early colonists that spread through the galaxy hundreds of thousands of years ago--possibly in the pre-hyperdrive days--and adapted (naturally or otherwise) to the less than ideal habitats they found themselves on (like say genetically engineering lekku to store moisture, body fat and moderate body temperature in the particularly hot and arid conditions of Ryloth)...but that's straying into head-canony stuff.
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The drawings of Ted Mayer
https://battleramblog.com/ted-mayer/
Scroll down for Star Wars drawings
Ion cannon firing
https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/ion-cannon.299488/page-4#post-5216724
Similar...great for phaser banks too
https://battleramblog.com/ted-mayer/
Scroll down for Star Wars drawings
Ion cannon firing
https://www.therpf.com/forums/threads/ion-cannon.299488/page-4#post-5216724
Similar...great for phaser banks too
Hera, a Twi-Lek, and Kanan, a human, had a kid in the epilogue of the last episode of Rebels.
In an unrelated note, I have always wished that that we knew more about the separatists during the clone war. Almost all of the separatists that we got to know were either the droids fighting for them or their military commanders. We never got to know much about the separatists civilian leaders or their political system. The Clone Wars did offer a glimpse here and there.
I wish we had like a Firefly like series where former Separatists are now trying to survive in the new Empire.
I wish we had like a Firefly like series where former Separatists are now trying to survive in the new Empire.
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What if Luke had joined Vader to overthrow the Emperor? I don't think that would actually necessary make him evil and/or want to become the next Emperor, could he have turned things good from within?
Although joining Vader probably *would* mean that he would have to crush the Rebellion first or soon after Palpatine, though.
Although joining Vader probably *would* mean that he would have to crush the Rebellion first or soon after Palpatine, though.
I mean, Luke would have to prove himself somehow.
Hand in hand with joining Vader is embracing the Dark Side. Which yes, does in fact make him evil. Or at least evil-leaning.
But Mace Windu's coup attempt was totally cool.
IIRC, Ahsoka corrected people when using rank to address her as "commander." If "general" was an honorific for Jedi during the Clone Wars, then it seems like there was a codified hierarchy of honorifics. Maybe it was based on the Jedi rank of Padawan, Knight, Master? But in that case it doesn't strike me as just an honorific but rather as an actual rank with the authority to give orders to subordinates in the Republic forces.
...And the very fact that the Jedi can only have one of these two ranks, and nothing in between, nicely grinds in the plot point that the Jedi were out of their depth leading a war, applying bushido in ways that cost lives, annoying career military men like Tarkin, and generally (har, har) making asses of themselves. In addition to being assets, of course, a bit like compact little two-legged AT-TEs. But plotwise, they were nobility granted high command without accompanying merit, to create the intriguing mixture of chivalry fiction and trench drama.
Were the Jedi better embedded in the military machine, with appropriate ranks, the stories would have missed that major point. Palpatine would not have gotten what he did had the war been conducted by men like Tarkin; the Jedi needed to stand out so that they could be publicly smeared afterwards.
(With the First Order, "out of their depth" probably goes without saying. What the writers want us to see is not a deadly military machine, but some sort of a sorry banana republic led by delusional and possibly self-promoted officers, just with some of the tools of trade of Nazi Germany and the random WMD to make them a credible threat.)
Timo Saloniemi
Always appreciated Dooku's perspective.
You're missing the obvious. Commander is a naval rank, whereas general is an army rank. Ergo, the rank system does not correspond to a real-world system. So, to criticize it on the basis of there being nothing in between alone is a non sequitur.
Trying to make sense of the rank system in SW (whether it be Imperial or Rebel) is an exercise in futility.
Vader would probably have done away with that tradition.
Now maybe I'm way off base here, but apparently Vader does (at least on some level) truly love his son, or at least respects him. So I would think that Vader would neither allow, nor require, Luke to kill him.
I actually do believe that Vader was sincere in wanting to join with Luke, overthrow Palpatine, and rule the Empire together.
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Most Sith probably think that until it's their turn to be Master and then...well, if they were any good at resisting the temptations of power they wouldn't have been Sith to begin with, no?
I don't think he truly did until literally that moment when he sacrificed his life for him. Up until that point it was just the same twisted, possessive, selfish shadow of love that got Padme killed and started this whole mess.
Yes, but again, the motivation was a selfish one. He wanted HIS son to join HIM and rule over HIS Empire with HIM as the Master.
He's trying to recapture something of Padme that he lost to fill a void inside him that can never be filled. To wit; he was equally sincere in his intent when he threatened to dispose of Luke and turn Leia instead. If Luke rejected him a second time, he'd have been done with him because he just can't fathom a rational person turning down power, much less the kind of power that he thinks he's offering.
I don't see relevance there. The Force wielders could have retained the titles Jedi and Padawan, or chosen to call themselves Moff and Vizir for all we care; the very fact that these are not ranks through which one can progress by showing competence or heroism, but merely alternate names for the positions determined by the Jedi theocracy, is the point. And not "critique" - it's a feature rather than a bug, an integral part of how the Jedi Order conducted the war.
That the Grand Army also had people ranked Commander only seems to reinforce the point. No Clone Commander, no matter how experienced, would have been the superior of a Padawan in the command chain. No Clone could get promoted to General. Or to Admiral, but the non-Clone Admirals we saw also seemed a breed apart from the Grand Army, taking orders from the Jedi but not bowing to the Army without explicit Jedi prompting.
For all we know, the Navy of the Republic had regular naval ranks, by and large. The Grand Army most assuredly did not, but AFAWK this only manifests in the ban on higher ranks, the armored glass ceiling at the Padawan/Commander rank and position. Below that, it seems the ranks are real-world, even though it also seems the Clones initially were bred for the ranks rather than being granted them through promotions based on performance.
Timo Saloniemi
My point is that, in terms of on-screen evidence, there isn't any way to gauge how many steps there are between "Commander" and "General." And moreover the real world is no avail, since the system clearly doesn't correspond to a real world system.
Pretty much this. In ROTJ, there was even that costuming error where Jerjerrod's costumed rank plaque obviously made no sense.
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