Strange New Worlds will be the test.
Starship design history in light of Discovery
- Thread starter INACTIVEUSS Einstein
- Start date
Just make the collars a solid black elastic collar or black fabric and ditch the tab. That'd get us a lot of the way to the TOS Season 1 uniforms. I'd lose the front zippers so they no longer look like jackets but pullover shirts but that's something I'll gladly put up with it if the idiotic asymmetrical collar tab is no longer present.
Yup. That asymmetrical collar is dumb.
I like the variant seen in The Trouble With Edward Short Trek. It looks way more comfy than the standard uniform as well.
The collar on those is the closest we come to the turtlenecks/ribbed collar tunics from the TOS pilots.
Costume designer Gersha Phillips likes asymmetrical things in Starfleet uniforms. She couldn't help making the new uniforms for DSC's fourth season have asymmetrical tunics...
I was always generally okay with the DSC uniforms, but those fussy-ass asymmetrical collars really do suck. Quite distracting an unnecessary, especially on the high color saturation Enterprise versions, which make them stand out even more.
The best I could expect is some transition to WNMHGB uniforms before Kirk takes over command.
Hm... Asymmetrical uniforms.... like the TMP era uniform?
The thing about the TOS design that looks out of place is it goes against ILM model making tradition of lots of greebles. Jefferies was deliberately going for a smooth exterior. When you examine what that means, it is actually one of the most advanced designs. That it does't scream future to people is because the design has been around for over 50 years. it isn't because it isn't a good design or a futuristic design. it is because it is too simple. The Defiant in In A Mirror Darkly dealt with some of those by giving the hull aztecing and other detailing that brought it closer to the TMP and NX designs. I find the Discovery ship designs to be following Star Wars too close rather than being their own thing. I think mandating no cylindrical nacelles to be a mistake. It should be mixed. There should be different nacelles designs. Mike Minor proposed a rounded version of what they used in Discovery, so it really isn't a new idea. the 4 nacelle designs look like the Excelsior test models. Some of the designs are pretty cool, but they really belong in a post Voyager world, not a just-prior-to-TOS world. NX and TOS Enterprise have the same basic nacelle design, as did the Aurora in TOS and some other ships in TAS. So mandating no cylindrical nacelles goes against Trek history and was a really dumb idea. Some of the ship designs are cool, some are pretty stupid. The kitbashers of the DS9 ere were more creative.
The various fan reimaginings of the TOS Enterprise have shown the design is sound and can be roughed up to look more modern without actually changing the design. And I don't think there is anything wrong with the original design, untouched if it is lit like a modern model.
They have a slightly different aesthetic, but it is still pretty much the same design. They roughed up the hull surface, but didn't really add too many more details. The neck is shorter and the pylons are swept back and merge into the hull differently, but there isn't much difference. And in case you are wondering, that IS the TOS Enterprise from the Smithsonian following the 2015 restoration. I added the inner grille lighting and used the same fuzzy glow to the lighting.
Star Trek has always had a smoother design than Star Wars. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing antiquated about it. Only the impression that this model is 50 years old takes away from any futuristic aspect to it. It isn't the design itself. The design is sound and if rendered in a modern way can look modern. So it is only the impression of age that works against it. Add a few tweaks and it can feel very modern. The beauty of Jefferies very futuristic design.
The thing about the TOS design that looks out of place is it goes against ILM model making tradition of lots of greebles. Jefferies was deliberately going for a smooth exterior. When you examine what that means, it is actually one of the most advanced designs. That it does't scream future to people is because the design has been around for over 50 years. it isn't because it isn't a good design or a futuristic design. it is because it is too simple. The Defiant in In A Mirror Darkly dealt with some of those by giving the hull aztecing and other detailing that brought it closer to the TMP and NX designs. I find the Discovery ship designs to be following Star Wars too close rather than being their own thing. I think mandating no cylindrical nacelles to be a mistake. It should be mixed. There should be different nacelles designs. Mike Minor proposed a rounded version of what they used in Discovery, so it really isn't a new idea. the 4 nacelle designs look like the Excelsior test models. Some of the designs are pretty cool, but they really belong in a post Voyager world, not a just-prior-to-TOS world. NX and TOS Enterprise have the same basic nacelle design, as did the Aurora in TOS and some other ships in TAS. So mandating no cylindrical nacelles goes against Trek history and was a really dumb idea. Some of the ship designs are cool, some are pretty stupid. The kitbashers of the DS9 ere were more creative.
The various fan reimaginings of the TOS Enterprise have shown the design is sound and can be roughed up to look more modern without actually changing the design. And I don't think there is anything wrong with the original design, untouched if it is lit like a modern model.
They have a slightly different aesthetic, but it is still pretty much the same design. They roughed up the hull surface, but didn't really add too many more details. The neck is shorter and the pylons are swept back and merge into the hull differently, but there isn't much difference. And in case you are wondering, that IS the TOS Enterprise from the Smithsonian following the 2015 restoration. I added the inner grille lighting and used the same fuzzy glow to the lighting.
Star Trek has always had a smoother design than Star Wars. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing antiquated about it. Only the impression that this model is 50 years old takes away from any futuristic aspect to it. It isn't the design itself. The design is sound and if rendered in a modern way can look modern. So it is only the impression of age that works against it. Add a few tweaks and it can feel very modern. The beauty of Jefferies very futuristic design.
This isn't a matter of "wrong" but believability in moving towards the future. Now, of the shows ou there I think that TOS is the closest one that could be taken from dated to modern with little issue, and I think SNW will bear that out. I just think it can be cut out of the 60s and pasted right in to modern future thinking. It's closer than TNG era design thinking though.
It won't take much but it still needs something from my perspective.
It won't take much but it still needs something from my perspective.
I can't wait for SNW's inevitable radical re-redesign of the Enterprise to be even less like the TOS version than as seen in DSC. They need to put an open slit in the NECK and watch forums all burn instantly, across all known web-space.
The Consittution Class in Discovery started out as this
Clearly an earlier concept with stright pylons and an odd angle.... except very familiar bend.
And look at the front of those nacelles. Very much like many of the Discovery designs.
Like this Excelsior concept from 1983.
And Discovery itself is a callback to the Enterprise of Ralph McQuarrie.
So Discovery is all based on older ship designs, but they aren't really tied to TOS or ENT. In Star Trek lore, especially if you count TAS, you have 6 different ship designs with some very common features that they decided to completely ignore except for the Enterprise. I think having both design ideas would have made it feel more like it fit with TOS. But just dumping the TOS designs style completely was not a good choice. I'm currently working on a more TOS feel Shenzhou, but I am not going with cylindrical nacelles but instead looking for a predecessor feel to the Mike Minor, Matt Jefferies Phase II, and Richard Taylor Refit Nacelles. So I'm very much in favor of variety, which I think we didn't get. I hope moving forward we seem some other ships with cylindrical nacelles that are older rather than newer.
Clearly an earlier concept with stright pylons and an odd angle.... except very familiar bend.
And look at the front of those nacelles. Very much like many of the Discovery designs.
Like this Excelsior concept from 1983.
And Discovery itself is a callback to the Enterprise of Ralph McQuarrie.
So Discovery is all based on older ship designs, but they aren't really tied to TOS or ENT. In Star Trek lore, especially if you count TAS, you have 6 different ship designs with some very common features that they decided to completely ignore except for the Enterprise. I think having both design ideas would have made it feel more like it fit with TOS. But just dumping the TOS designs style completely was not a good choice. I'm currently working on a more TOS feel Shenzhou, but I am not going with cylindrical nacelles but instead looking for a predecessor feel to the Mike Minor, Matt Jefferies Phase II, and Richard Taylor Refit Nacelles. So I'm very much in favor of variety, which I think we didn't get. I hope moving forward we seem some other ships with cylindrical nacelles that are older rather than newer.
I'd forgotten about that Constitution Class display on Discovery. Thank god we didn't get that. Those pointless saucer cutouts are pure Eaves.
Sexy AF.
I love the Discovery Starfleet designs too, but looking forward to more with SNW.
The Defiant had been in Terran hands for awhile and had obviously been modified to their needs and tastes over the decades.
Or it's class variations. The "finished" version is in STO, and in the screenshots I've seen it looks pretty cool.
Alex Kurtzman said Discovery "brings the look and feel of our Star Trek movies to television". That was the blueprint, their own version of the JJ reboot. At least in as much as visuals and use of technology.
Alex Kurtzman said Discovery "brings the look and feel of our Star Trek movies to television". That was the blueprint, their own version of the JJ reboot. At least in as much as visuals and use of technology.
It started out as the TOS/ENT Defiant and ended up looking like that. It's not that difficult. A century in Terran hands resulted in a very customized and bastardized starship.
Ship design changes really are not that hard.
It entered the Mirror Universe in 2155. It's seen on that Tactical readout in 2257. That's 102 years. Look how much the Prime Universe Enterprise changed between 2257 and its final destruction in 2285.