The least disliked episode 2021 - DISCO Season Two

[Quinton]

It appears to be a somewhat uncommon opinion, but I actually don't feel like S2's plot fell apart at the end. In fact, the two-part finale is one of the show's high-water marks IMO.

S3's last third is definitely a fizzle, yeah. Though I enjoy the character work well enough.

 

[oldtrekkie]

It appears to be a somewhat uncommon opinion, but I actually don't feel like S2's plot fell apart at the end. In fact, the two-part finale is one of the show's high-water marks IMO.

S3's last third is definitely a fizzle, yeah. Though I enjoy the character work well enough.

I think the problem with S2 is that they made things up as they went along and had no idea at the start of the season where they were going to go with this and it shows!!! The problem is not so much that they did it that way it's that they managed to contradict themselves in doing so. This could have been avoided if they had a clear plan, to begin with.... However, the season was still entertaining. It's just that a little planning could have turned it into a masterpiece.

 

[eschaton]

I think the problem with S2 is that they made things up as they went along and had no idea at the start of the season where they were going to go with this and it shows!!! The problem is not so much that they did it that way it's that they managed to contradict themselves in doing so. This could have been avoided if they had a clear plan, to begin with.... However, the season was still entertaining. It's just that a little planning could have turned it into a masterpiece.

I actually think that Harberts and Berg had a plan, but once they were shitcanned Kurtzman didn't want to use their planned conclusion - possibly because going along with it would require giving them story credit and continuing to pay them. So they threw out their entire plan after filming the sixth episode, did a handful of reshoots, and made up the arc on the fly.

As a result, the back half of the season takes a bunch of random stuff the first six episodes established (Spock, Terralysium, the Sphere, the Red Angel, Section 31) and somehow attempts to connect them all together in a way that doesn't quite gel - even after giving Gabrielle Burnham two whole episodes to attempt to technobabble it all away.

 

[Vger23]

I actually think that Harberts and Berg had a plan, but once they were shitcanned Kurtzman didn't want to use their planned conclusion - possibly because going along with it would require giving them story credit and continuing to pay them. So they threw out their entire plan after filming the sixth episode, did a handful of reshoots, and made up the arc on the fly.

As a result, the back half of the season takes a bunch of random stuff the first six episodes established (Spock, Terralysium, the Sphere, the Red Angel, Section 31) and somehow attempts to connect them all together in a way that doesn't quite gel - even after giving Gabrielle Burnham two whole episodes to attempt to technobabble it all away.

I completely agree with this hypothesis, and have for a long time. They really hyped the season up as an exploration of the relationship between faith and science....and that seemed to be a very clear theme in the first 2-3 episodes. The Red Angel was obviously supposed to be something else, for example. Then, they did a hard 90-degree turn from seemingly out of nowhere...and suddenly we are battling an evil Section 31 AI and the Red Angel is a human in a suit.

Honestly, if you really think about it, it was a pretty impressive recovery if what we suspect happened is actually true. The season still ended up being entertaining, despite the gut-wrenching change in direction and theme.

But, it is also a shame we didn't see the (supposedly) fully planned story pan out.

 

[eschaton]

Honestly, if you really think about it, it was a pretty impressive recovery if what we suspect happened is actually true. The season still ended up being entertaining, despite the gut-wrenching change in direction and theme.

Yeah. All things considered the finale itself didn't turn out that bad. I liked it a lot more than the finale of the first season. I think the nadir of the season was The Red Angel/Perpetual Infinity, where they spent so much time trying to explain how everything tied in with the new Control/time travel arc that they didn't remember there was supposed to be something fun (or at least interesting).

I presume eventually stories will come out regarding the BTS drama in the Discovery writer's room. That stuff eventually came out with all of the other shows after all.

 

[Vger23]

Yeah. All things considered the finale itself didn't turn out that bad. I liked it a lot more than the finale of the first season. I think the nadir of the season was The Red Angel/Perpetual Infinity, where they spent so much time trying to explain how everything tied in with the new Control/time travel arc that they didn't remember there was supposed to be something fun (or at least interesting).

I presume eventually stories will come out regarding the BTS drama in the Discovery writer's room. That stuff eventually came out with all of the other shows after all.

I'd imagine Berg and Harberts were given some "go away" money, signed a very strict NDA, and were told to ride off quietly into the sunset.

 

[Sakonna]

I truly wish Kurtzman etc could just admit they're completely incompetent at serialization and give it up. Most episodes of Discovery are individually strong -- but when added up into the main season arc they become an incoherent, contradictory mess. It reminds me of those friends where each new boyfriend is another version of the same asshole. You eventually just want to scream at them -- you have so much to offer, stop sabotaging yourself by making the same mistake year after year!

I think the nadir of the season was The Red Angel/Perpetual Infinity, where they spent so much time trying to explain how everything tied in with the new Control/time travel arc that they didn't remember there was supposed to be something fun (or at least interesting).

They also needed to keep those 10 minutes free for Burnham to just scream in agony while she was tortured to near-death.

 

[eschaton]

I truly wish Kurtzman etc could just admit they're completely incompetent at serialization and give it up. Most episodes of Discovery are individually strong -- but when added up into the main season arc they become an incoherent, contradictory mess. It reminds me of those friends where each new boyfriend is another version of the same asshole. You eventually just want to scream at them -- you have so much to offer, stop sabotaging yourself by making the same mistake year after year!

Serialization is hard when you're working without an established long-form written source like a series of novels or comic books. In my experience, there's basically two ways to do it successfully - neither of which Discovery accomplishes.

Option 1 is basically "write a movie, and stretch it out." Netflix does this a lot. There are negatives to this setup, as seasons tend to have big flaccid middle periods where not much happens. However, the positive of this sort of season arc is there's really not all that much plot, all things considered, which leaves a lot of space for character development and interactions.

Option 2 is semi-serialization. In this sort of setup, there is a wider seasonal framing device, but the plots from week to week can be largely divorced from this. Individual threads from earlier stories can and do come back, and characters show growth over time as a result of their experiences. This type of writing isn't new to Trek, and allows for a slowly-unfolding arc without a highly-detailed master plan. Discovery even dabbled with this - arguably embracing it in the third season.

The main issue with Discovery IMHO is it tends to be overplotted. The writers are consistently too ambitious with what they want to accomplish with the plot, generally wanting every episode to have its own complete arc and to move along the arc of the season as a whole. This leaves relatively little time for naturalistic dialogue which would allow character development, and often also results in characters being jerked around like marionettes by the plot because it needs to be railroaded to a predetermined conclusion due to the needs of the arc.

 

[Quinton]

I think the problem with S2 is that they made things up as they went along and had no idea at the start of the season where they were going to go with this and it shows!!! The problem is not so much that they did it that way it's that they managed to contradict themselves in doing so. This could have been avoided if they had a clear plan, to begin with.... However, the season was still entertaining. It's just that a little planning could have turned it into a masterpiece.

Makes sense! I agree.