I wept with this trailer. When Leto ask Jessica to protect Paul, and she responds “With my life.” You absolutely believe it.
Dune 2018 (19,20,21...)
- Thread starter wayoung
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Not continuing to read Messiah was a combination of it not grabbing me like the first one did (there was something in particular about the prose and/or focus of the story that I found very off-putting but I don't recall exactly what since that was about 15 years ago) and knowing what the story was about broadly speaking. Knowing the basics of the following sequels was even more off-putting so I haven't bothered giving Messiah a second chance (especially since I have sooo many other books to read).
I'm pretty sure the person FPAlpha is referring to isn't Kynes but a different individual, but I could be wrong because you only see that person for a second. I haven't had a chance to look at any trailer breakdowns to study the screencaps.
As for the gender swap, Villeneuve discussed his reasoning awhile back and I recall it making sense (mostly because, as FPAlpha said, it doesn't actually effect the story).
Did Blade Runner 2049 actually tank? I seem to recall it had a pretty good showing in the box office (although I don't remember how that compared to its budget) and it was received pretty well critically, including the fans (such as myself). Will we never get another sequel? Perhaps so but I still think we got a great film and that's all that matters.
As for your prediction, I wouldn't be surprised if the second weekend has a big drop-off regardless of how the general audience receives it because of a combination of COVID still being a problem and the simultaneous release on HBO Max, just like what happened to Black Widow. I say that now to get ahead of proclamations of "See!? It wasn't received well by the general audience!"
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Nothing wrong with that.
So you're cool with Chani's father being a woman... o-kay...
Yeah, right. Like any Star Wars fan who loved the first movie is going to spend ten minutes watching the second one, decide it's boring and never try again?
Ironic, since Star Wars ripped off quite a bit of Dune (and it's not only fans who say so; Frank Herbert said so, too).
And what was this Arrakis-shaking reason? And don't say that "it doesn't matter" because that's not a good enough reason. And I also read the "because we needed another woman in the cast" reason, which is ridiculous. The Lynch movie basically deleted Harah's reason for being in it, even though they kept the actress on after cutting the scenes that explained that she was Jamis' wife and Paul basically inherited her and the two kids when he killed Jamis.
Harah is actually a significant character who deserves more than how the movies and miniseries have treated her. Jessica can teach Alia the ways of the Bene Gesserit (supplementing and explaining what Alia knows from Other Memory), but it's Harah who teaches Alia how to be Fremen. It's this pragmatic Fremen outlook that governs much of Alia's thoughts and actions in Dune Messiah and part of Children of Dune.
But of course people who turn their noses up at the other novels without giving them a fair try wouldn't know this.
Is there some reason why Kynes has to be a father and can't be her mother instead? More than just because that's the way it was in the book. I haven't read Dune in years, so I really don't remember what exactly it established about Kynes or Chani or their relationship.
Bunches of subtext, but nothing too important. Mainly, because of the themes of motherhood and fatherhood being important elsewhere in the story. I *think* every ‘mother’ in the story is also a ‘holy mother’ of some kind. Even Chani. Liet is important casting if they are doing *all* the books.
I am kinda hoping they don’t actually. There’s just no way some of that stuff would get past maintstream audiences. There’s some unpleasant stuff with axolotl tanks, and some hefty possibly anti-Islamic stuff (which, given the Fremen now have crusades rather than Jihad, can’t be balanced out with positive interpretation elsewhere) Not to mention the Jews later on, and face-dancers.. and well. There’s a bunch of stuff that is on the surface very politically incorrect.
It would possibly be a little too much.
This is more an addendum to my earlier answer than just to your Ok. XD
(If they thought they were genuinely going to do the whole lot, they wouldn’t need to worry about female representation in the cast, there’s a shit ton later. Would make even DSC look like a sausage fest in a monastery.)
Yes, possibly. Honestly, never cared for ESB so the fact I ever made it through at all was a minor miracle. But, for me, Star Wars is just that first movie. I enjoy all the rest of the films but I would not miss any of them. I would the original Star Wars, same with the original Dune.
Insert "no true fan" argument here.
BR2049 performed badly below expectations. The opening weekend domestically was about half of what WB had been projecting, and the international openings were even worse. Because the movie was so extensively marketed and was extremely expensive to produce (I guarantee you heads rolled over green-lighting a 35-year-later nearly $200 million sequel to a movie that was itself a turd at the box office), WB took a bath on it. Initial estimates were an $80 million loss but later The Hollywood Reporter said that the losses were north of $100 million once payouts had been calculated.
It's a phenomenal movie, don't get me wrong, but it was presented to audiences as an action-packed sci-fi thriller and they got a nearly three-hour treatise on the human condition.
Audiences are being told to think that Dune is an action-packed thriller, when it's going to be a 2.5-hour treatise on sociopolitical machinations, ecology and the dangers of having faith in charismatic leaders and blind nationalism.
Oh please. There is no story reason Kynes has to be a man. So sick of this conversation. Being Chani's mother works just as well. It doesn't change the story at all.
Race and gender only matter when the characters race and gender are integral to the story being told. Kynes gender is not integral to his/her character. Kynes importance is as a Fremen leader and imperial representative, recognising in Paul the future of the Fremen - despite his/her own reservations - and then acting to preserve Paul and Jessica.
Villeneuve believed Sharon Duncan Brewster was the best person to perform the role he envisaged and that's who he cast.
The novel was written in the 60's. The women may be formidable but they still exist only to service the male characters. Jessica as wife and mother, her only purpose to serve Leto & Paul, Chani as love interest to Paul, Hannah, who has a miniscule role, is a literal prize, a reward for killing her husband, even if Paul refuses to have sex with her. Irulan as Paul's biographer with snippets at the start of chapters, and standing in the background as she becomes his trophy wife. I'm not sure if she actually has a line outside those snippets in the book.
So they changed a character to a woman to strengthen the female representation in a movie. Big whoop. You'll survive. It's been 20 years since Starbuck in BSG already. You'd think people would be over this BS.
Now if Paul starts reminiscing about his time as a runaway member of the space circus? That's cause for complaint.
Race and gender only matter when the characters race and gender are integral to the story being told. Kynes gender is not integral to his/her character. Kynes importance is as a Fremen leader and imperial representative, recognising in Paul the future of the Fremen - despite his/her own reservations - and then acting to preserve Paul and Jessica.
Villeneuve believed Sharon Duncan Brewster was the best person to perform the role he envisaged and that's who he cast.
The novel was written in the 60's. The women may be formidable but they still exist only to service the male characters. Jessica as wife and mother, her only purpose to serve Leto & Paul, Chani as love interest to Paul, Hannah, who has a miniscule role, is a literal prize, a reward for killing her husband, even if Paul refuses to have sex with her. Irulan as Paul's biographer with snippets at the start of chapters, and standing in the background as she becomes his trophy wife. I'm not sure if she actually has a line outside those snippets in the book.
So they changed a character to a woman to strengthen the female representation in a movie. Big whoop. You'll survive. It's been 20 years since Starbuck in BSG already. You'd think people would be over this BS.
Now if Paul starts reminiscing about his time as a runaway member of the space circus? That's cause for complaint.
That was pretty much what I thought.
Dune: The Sisterhood, the series focused on the Bene Gesserit, has a new showrunner, Diane Ademu-John. Accoring to the Tor.com article I linked to, she was a writer/executive producer on both The Haunting of Bly Manor and The Originals. I've never seen Bly Manor, but The Originals is one of my favorite shows, so I'm pretty happy to see someone from that involved.
Dune: The Sisterhood, the series focused on the Bene Gesserit, has a new showrunner, Diane Ademu-John. Accoring to the Tor.com article I linked to, she was a writer/executive producer on both The Haunting of Bly Manor and The Originals. I've never seen Bly Manor, but The Originals is one of my favorite shows, so I'm pretty happy to see someone from that involved.
Kynes is now the mother and Stilgar is the father. Makes a whole lot more sense this way.
Same must be true for me because I love both A New Hope and Rogue One more than The Empire Strikes Back.Yes, possibly. Honestly, never cared for ESB so the fact I ever made it through at all was a minor miracle. But, for me, Star Wars is just that first movie. I enjoy all the rest of the films but I would not miss any of them. I would the original Star Wars, same with the original Dune.
Insert "no true fan" argument here.
After I wrote that post, I took a look at its box office numbers and they were much lower than I thought. I guess I was blinded by how much I loved the movie that I didn't care whether it was a smash or not.
Fair points there and I can see that being an issue. But I also stand my point that it'll probably underperform (at the box office) because of COVID and HBO Max). I can only hope that the HBO Max numbers are big enough to warrant a sequel.
There's another worrying factor I don't think I've seen anyone in this thread comment on: The trailers don't say anything about the film being the first part of two films, whereas I've already seen reports from those who saw the IMAX preview that it's titled Dune: Part One. That might be off-putting to people much in the same way some people were by Fellowship of the Ring being the first of a trilogy (and that was advertised as the first part).
io9 has done a thorough breakdown of the trailer.
FPAlpha, the article's author, Beth Elderkin, believes that the figure I think you were asking about before is probably an emissary from the emperor, since it appears to take place on Caladan (see the GIF below the one with the egg-shaped ship).
She also says the "Come with me" speaker is in fact Jamis (backed up with the actor's name, Babs Olusanmokun, so presumably that comes from some casting source).
FPAlpha, the article's author, Beth Elderkin, believes that the figure I think you were asking about before is probably an emissary from the emperor, since it appears to take place on Caladan (see the GIF below the one with the egg-shaped ship).
She also says the "Come with me" speaker is in fact Jamis (backed up with the actor's name, Babs Olusanmokun, so presumably that comes from some casting source).
Oh I am not fussed by the change, just talking about the story overall and possible reasons why that characters gender would even matter. Gender in the overall Dune thing is a complex thing to analyse. (Not least as it gets a bit… possibly unpleasantly misogynistic towards the end, but even that maybe a misrepresentation as the Tleiaxu are not exactly goodies.)
As far as ‘Dune’ book one is concerned it doesn’t really matter, but gender overall in Dune is something of a theme, because of the Bene Gesserit.
Overall Dune is just weird.
It looks...incredibly generic. It has no visual distinction. It's another tedious desaturated eyesore by people who are apparently terrified of chroma.
The trailer editing too is generic and dull, and I get no sense of story from it.
I haven't loved the trailers, but it still looks great. I think they've shown a little too much. Would prefer if they held back a bit.
I like that they had more ethnic sounding music this time as opposed to the lame Pink Floyd cover.
I expect this to be a box office failure.
I like that they had more ethnic sounding music this time as opposed to the lame Pink Floyd cover.
I expect this to be a box office failure.
