Not every mission requires a Galaxy or a Nebula, but it doesn't make sense to me to insist that a ship design that is one of only two that's even been stated as limited in it's capabilities (the other being it's cousin the Defiant class), is the complete opposite, particularly as it demonstrably proved less capable than the Intrepid class (which is a mid-range "jack of all trades") in extremis.
If not the California-Class...
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Not every mission requires a Galaxy or a Nebula, but it doesn't make sense to me to insist that a ship design that is one of only two that's even been stated as limited in it's capabilities (the other being it's cousin the Defiant class), is the complete opposite, particularly as it demonstrably proved less capable than the Intrepid class (which is a mid-range "jack of all trades") in extremis.
That's only in regards to the original Nova-class design. The upgraded version was shown to be considerably more versatile and powerful. Not sure why this is an issue.
Non-upgraded Nova class has limited capabilities yes (but its not so limited to the point where it's utterly incapable of anything - its still well armed and protected)... the upgraded version would further improve on these and remove/minimize weaknesses.
As technology advances very fast (and for UFP it would be advancing far faster), hardware that would previously require larger amount of space would fit into much smaller frames and be more efficient and powerful to boot.
Similar to how the Intrepid is a downsized Galaxy class effectively. The Nova class could be the new downsized and upgraded Galaxy class (times 2 or 3).
Like anything, upgrades would have expanded on its original capabilities and mission parameters.
I can see crew size maybe being a limiting factor for maybe some missions (in which case, larger ships like the Galaxy class would still fulfill those and more), but for the most part, not really. Also, internally, the ship's design could have changed in the proceeding 26 years to accommodate more crew (not for the purpose of running the ship as such because most of that would be done through automation anyway... but for mission specific parameters).
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Powerfully, yes. Maybe even a little faster, though that's probably a new type of drive rather than improved conventional warp.
Versatile for me is more of a measure of how many things something can do well, not how many things that it can kludge some sort of a job for.
For instance, the Defiant was used a couple of times as a science ship for ops that pretty much just involved probes and sensor scans, but that doesn't alter the fact that that the opposite of what it's designed to be, nor does it make it a true "jack of all trades".
The Defiant was also used as a flagship during both Operation: Return and the Battle of Cardassia, possibly Chintoka as well, I'm not sure on that one, but the episode itself makes it clear that it is truely horrible in the role as it distracts most of the bridge crew and leaves Dax to do all the work of "fighting" the Defiant AFAICT.
Okay, so that's where the disagreement is. My definition of versatility is indeed how many kinds of missions a ship can do, not whether if it's the ultimate starship. The upgraded Nova-class seemed more versatile and capable than the original version, so it fits the bill as a ship that can do a wide variety of jobs, even if it's among the smaller ships in the fleet.
I always liked the Nova but always felt it had a very limited capacity for versatility. Star Trek has demonstrated a lot of times that bigger is better when it comes to power generation and capability.
I'm not campaigning for only "ultimate starships" being considered versatile. The key thing for me is endurance and manpower, the original Nova is lacking in both, and there's no evidence that the Rhode Island sub-type improves on this.
It packed a better punch, frankly I'd consider it a fully-realized version of the Defiant Pathfinder-type, but it's still going to be limited in it's crew welfare, research and diplomatic facilities which will limit it's capability for anything beyond short term surveys or combat missions.
I disagree with all of that, but you're welcome to your opinion. I still stand with my opening remark about what ship I'd go for and why. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Fair enough.
There's always the Mongrel Class.
Even the https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Curry_type is better than that. And that's saying something.
The original version of the Nova class might have seen occasional use as a bus or pick up truck.
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Speaking of Curry, here's one to make your eyes bleed - the proposed Merced-class USS Trieste. It was a model made by Dan Curry to be part of the tachyon net fleet in Redemption Part II.
...And yes, it looked EXACTLY like this...
...And yes, it looked EXACTLY like this...
I've seen worse.
The mismatch of Movie-era hull with Galaxy-era nacelles isn't great.
I'm also not wild about the being that far forward or the "chase gun".
The general shape's not bad though. I could see it as an Escort.
The mismatch of Movie-era hull with Galaxy-era nacelles isn't great.
I'm also not wild about the being that far forward or the "chase gun".
The general shape's not bad though. I could see it as an Escort.
I like it. Looks like a patrol boat.
The Mongrel class is an early member of the Frankenstein Fleet.
I think you can get roughly three different size ranges for multi-role/utility/work horse vessels:
1. Small. See comments regarding Nova ships.
2. Medium range. Mirandas toward the smaller end, Excelsiors toward the larger end. Includes Cali class.
3. Very Large. Nebula class. Works okay because of those big, mission specific pods.
Regarding number 3, I expect that only a short production run can be justified. With the mission specific pods, the Very Large can substitute for several different classes that are not built.
I suspect that designs that turn out to be work horses likely weren't designed as such. Ships that were intended for specific purposes turn out to be more versatile than planned, while ships intended to be multi-role tend to have lack luster careers. (Think of the F-111 aircraft). It tends not to work well to try and make a machine that is all things to all people.
For this thread, I have been thinking of ships from either the Zombie Fleet or the Frankenstein Fleet.
Another possibility is the Springfield class. The design is decades old. The hump behind the saucer is supposed to be a mission specific pod, which gives the ship a kind of frumpy look from certain angles. Pods include sensor, cargo, and medical modules. The lower ranks could have bunks in the secondary hull.
I think you can get roughly three different size ranges for multi-role/utility/work horse vessels:
1. Small. See comments regarding Nova ships.
2. Medium range. Mirandas toward the smaller end, Excelsiors toward the larger end. Includes Cali class.
3. Very Large. Nebula class. Works okay because of those big, mission specific pods.
Regarding number 3, I expect that only a short production run can be justified. With the mission specific pods, the Very Large can substitute for several different classes that are not built.
I suspect that designs that turn out to be work horses likely weren't designed as such. Ships that were intended for specific purposes turn out to be more versatile than planned, while ships intended to be multi-role tend to have lack luster careers. (Think of the F-111 aircraft). It tends not to work well to try and make a machine that is all things to all people.
For this thread, I have been thinking of ships from either the Zombie Fleet or the Frankenstein Fleet.
Another possibility is the Springfield class. The design is decades old. The hump behind the saucer is supposed to be a mission specific pod, which gives the ship a kind of frumpy look from certain angles. Pods include sensor, cargo, and medical modules. The lower ranks could have bunks in the secondary hull.
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But you forget that as science and technology evolve, your need for space drops radically.
You can do lab work on something the size of a chip these days... and Starfleet also uses holodecks or holograms for that too.
So, even if in the initial days of TNG when the Galaxy class was brand new, it may have needed tons of space to do research... that wouldn't remain a fact decades later..
Also, more automation would have been brought into the mix reducing the need for people to do given work.
So, what previously needed dozens of labs and personnel on a Galaxy class in 2363 would need perhaps 1 lab and 1 or 2 people in 2404 on the upgraded Nova class.
The time differential here is 41 years when counting between 2363 and 2404 (Harry was on a deep space mission for 4 years before he showed up on Earth in 'Endgame', so that would mean the Nova was upgraded by the year 2400 - that's 37 years worth of upgrades before Harry took command - depending on how old this class of ships is - and since Janeway knew about it, that would indicate it was built alongside the Galaxy class or sometime during TNG).
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That's a pretty valid theory.
But on the other hand, the Nova class and Intrepid-class are contemporaries, so can we really assume that the upgraded Nova as improvements that we don't see that take to at least Intrepid-class equivalent or better? I've give you tactically... we have on-screen evidence for that... but scientific and diplomatic? That's pure speculation and the observed trend if anything implies the opposite (the Connie might not have been the biggest, but even with DSC's retcons it's still the very desirable and capable "one in a million" assignment that it was before, whereas the similarly sized Intrepid now approaches the "runt" of the explicitly multi-role crowd in it's era).
But on the other hand, the Nova class and Intrepid-class are contemporaries, so can we really assume that the upgraded Nova as improvements that we don't see that take to at least Intrepid-class equivalent or better? I've give you tactically... we have on-screen evidence for that... but scientific and diplomatic? That's pure speculation and the observed trend if anything implies the opposite (the Connie might not have been the biggest, but even with DSC's retcons it's still the very desirable and capable "one in a million" assignment that it was before, whereas the similarly sized Intrepid now approaches the "runt" of the explicitly multi-role crowd in it's era).
Pretty sure it was made for DS9, check out the Centaur-like additional windows (perhaps indicating a bigger scale than the Miranda) and nacelle colours, meant for the same reflective lighting system that only came along during DS9. Pics here.Speaking of Curry, here's one to make your eyes bleed - the proposed Merced-class USS Trieste. It was a model made by Dan Curry to be part of the tachyon net fleet in Redemption Part II.
...And yes, it looked EXACTLY like this...
