I got the impression that deepfakes by fans are so much better because the youtube videos the fans do are much lower resolution than the 4k resolution that these shows are filmed for, but i dont' know how much that is true or hearsay
News Brent Spiner Returned for "Picard" (and you could do the CGI better in 15 minutes, we get it)
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
- Start date
Judging by the effects of the show (except for the lazy copying of one ship for the starfleet armada) I'm pretty sure someone could have put a proper receding hairline wig on Spiner or do it with CGI and also thin his head out a bit. It had nothing to do with money. It had all to do with not having the proper people checking this stuff or simply not caring. Data had a specific look. Sire he was a bit heavier in Nemesis.(which a lot of people complained about) But in Picard he did not look anything remotely like he should have. They had ample time to get it right and they did not.
Resolution is one thing. Giving Data the hairline of a two year old is another....
Yes, it has everything to do with money.
How much freaking money does it take to give data a freaking proper hairline??? It was a lazy and sloppy job...
Please keep repeating it. I'm sure I'll believe it some day.
Every single aspect of production is governed by how much it costs to get it done in a certain time frame. It's dictates everything.
Now de-age Q. Go on.
You don't have to believe it. We all know what a budget means. But if we go with the fact that you feel they could not afford a good wig for Brent or decent CGI for de-aging and a fleet attack...Please keep repeating it. I'm sure I'll believe it some day.
Every single aspect of production is governed by how much it costs to get it done in a certain time frame. It's dictates everything.
Than where did the money go?? Because it certainly did not go into that abysmal ending we got....
DS9 and Voyager production crews were doing better stuff 20 years ago than the production crew on this show. I hope they learned their lesson for Season 2.
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No, apparently not everyone knows what a budget is. Certainly not based upon comments in this thread. I have no doubt the money went to a variety of places and that either time or money ran short for Brent. Decent CGI isn't cheap or quick. But, you don't have to believe it.You don't have to believe it. We all know what a budget means. But if we go with the fact that you feel they could not afford a good wig for Brent or decent CGI for de-aging and a fleet attack. Than where did the money go. Because it certainly did not go into that abysmal ending we got....
DS9 was Voyager production crews were doing better stuff 20 years ago than the production crew on this show. I hope they learned their lesson for Season 2.
I'm happy for DS9. I didn't watch Picard hoping for DS9. I watched Picard hoping to care about Picard as a character. Which it did is more so than TNG ever did.
Tng was much more enjoyable than what we got with Picard. Not saying I disliked all of it. But that ending was not good at all. Hopefully season 2 will be better but I'm not getting my hopes up. Shows back in the day had a season or two to find their legs. Not so anymore. With 10 episode seasons and maybe 3 seasons tops, Picard is already 1/3 of the way finished....so they better hurry up with a quality and well thought out story and at least get a better Hairdresser...lmao...
TNG was not enjoyable for me, aside from "All Good Things" and "Pegasus." Too little too late on that one. Season 2 is not boding well since it is TNG nostalgia fest.
Obviously, mileage will vary.
Reading this thread (and others) makes me feel like we've somehow forgotten how to be a generous audience. Sometimes you just have to buy into a slightly sub-par makeup or CGI job as the price of admission for an otherwise fun and meaningful time, and that's okay, because those things are just the gears that get us to where the story really wants to be. A lot of people seem to get so caught up in those gears that they miss out on everything else. Sometimes you have to just meet a story halfway.
Where's the fun in that .... /s
Some folks just aren't happy unless they can piss & moan about some aspect of the shows that they feel 'they' could have done oh so much better.
The days of just enjoying a show for it's entertainment value, seem to have long gone by for a lot of people.
It's like they've become the "Judge Dredd" of Star Trek.
I just am glad I'm not one of the Lawgivers.
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I could handle the less than generous nature of some reactions if it didn't immediately go to insulting the production team by assuming malice or laziness on the part of their work. I get that nitpicking is a part of the Star Trek franchise but it strikes me as excessively negative now.
Indeed. It's like enjoying a show is passe now. More fun to throw stones at it.
Right?!? I was just happy to see Brent Spiner as Data again. It was around First Contact where he was publicly stating that his time as Data was coming to an end because of his age. If an imperfect wig or less impressive de-aging (compared to what we have gotten spoiled with in the MCU) is the price to pay, then so be it.
I was certainly happy to see Brent back again at all, however, they did initially convince him they could effectively de-age him, then when he's onset they call and tell him they can't afford to, he then tells them that he only needs to look like he did in Nemesis(which is totally correct) and in an Interview with Brent and Marina, she says he looked terrible in the first Trailer(Im assuming his screwed up hair) that Vinyard scene, his hairpiece was too far back and they digitally pulled it down(initially way to low in the teaser) then in the final scene between Data and Picard, the hairpiece they used was way to low, and digitally pulled up(in all fairness a more acceptable job in mot shots) It's a crap situation where it really felt like the Powers that be were trying to take the cheap way out every time, and didn't give a rats ass about things like Data's distinct hairline. although I enjoy it for what it is, it's not very comforting to know that the show is in the hands of people who would let things like the crappy hairpieces fly, there is no good excuse for why they should look like a hack job, other than serious lack of preparation and or care. now I don't take much issue with his uniform, but the zipper is damn distracting, and the fact that they did take the cheap way out with a not so accurate replica is just another example of how this whole thing was mistreated. that Uniform got the Job Done, the hairpiece is a mess, though it looks it's best in the final episode(with better attempt to digitally fix it) the first episode it was just ugly. back when Spiner was playing Data regularly, things like the hair were for the most part consistent, even as he aged and needed hairpieces, they at least had the right look, the bad hairpiece would not have gotten off easy back when Nemesis was made, because they couldn't digitally fix it. regardless of whatever the actual problem was, it still comes off as a "we'll just fix it in post" which is not impressive, and it's a mentality that's become far to prevalent in Modern Film making. I respect that people put Effort into the show, but I'm not going to be so grateful that Brent came back at all, that I will act like the hairpiece doesn't matter, it was a serious screw up, and Brent got the short end of the stick, and thats not comforting, Brent's not responsible for his hairpiece, so trashing the hairpiece is not trashing him, the people people who didn't insist on some standard perfection for that ugly thing are who I'm pointing at.
In terms of the deaging work on his face, it's a bit of a mixed bag, but most of it is very acceptable all things considered, they did give him a facelift, they removed his double chin(too much at times) they did a pretty good job of smoothing his face out yet retaining some skin detail, which is an effect I've experimented with for over a decade, and it's not a walk in the park when trying to make it hold up under scrutiny, so I applaud them that they did as good a job as they did with it. yes his face could have been slimmed a bit better than it was, but I can totally live with that, the Hair situation is the one that is an eyesore, now what's done is done, but that does not make it ok, it just means it is what it is.
in interviews Brent has eluded to being less than thrilled with the job that was done, but obviously he's professional enough to outright trash anyone.
Now those criticisms are the Make-up Artist/VFX Artist in me talking, with the perspective of always having to pay attention to such details.
as a Trek Fan, I'm very Happy with Data's Scenes and story inclusion, I was extremely pleased with his final conversation with Picard, It totally resonated for me, it was beautifully written, and beautifully performed, it had a good deal of heart.
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I'll take imperfect any day of the week if it means telling an interesting story. Picard actually gets that from me.
He looks like his about to claim "Absolute Power." 
I have never worked on a television set, but I have worked in theater, and this strikes me as a bit of he said, she said mixed with some miscommunication between departments. In other words, I can see whoever is selling Brent Spiner overselling what could be done; however, I can also see an actor or the person doing the recruiting simply assuming that the effects would be as good as the MCU before a VFX person being like, "you want us to to WHAT with HOW MUCH money?!?".
For me, I won't make the assumption that they don't care. Rather, like the terrible shuttlecraft VFX in Insurrection (Just after Picard and Data leave the ship and are headed down to the planet--the sizes of everything is off and that effects shot just looks bad--it pulled me right out of the film on first watch in the theater), I tend to believe that in any sufficiently large production, there can be miscommunications and elements of the production that don't turn out as people hoped. On a big-budget tentpole film, the budget allows for the luxury of getting it right and even then, there are many films that have failed elements (Henry Cavill's lip in Justice League, anyone). For TV budget, even streaming, sometimes you just have to live with flawed results (especially for something like a teaser trailer) even if you aren't fully satisfied.
In short, people like Alex Kurtzman spend years of their lives working on these shows. While everyone has flaws, I would strongly doubt that not caring is one of them.