Why aren't Spock, Data, LaForge, Dax, etc PhDs?

[Hofner]

To elaborate on my previous post,

Working at that research center, I don't remember any Question about wheter to address a PhD as doctor or not, we were all just on first name basis. If I wondered about that when I started working there, it was quickly dismissed. We all knew the PhDs knew their stuff.

One of them, who was a woman, was pretty much the smartest of them all. She had well, a cute, girlish high pitched voice, it wasn't an affectation, her vocal chords were just that way. So when first hearing her talk,, like when she would give a tecnical presentation, both men and women would have a hard time taking her seriously. But if they knew anything at all about her expertese, chemistry, they would quickly realized she was a total expert on the subject.

She never tried to put on any airs, she was just a very nice person. A couple of times, she would helped me with something in the lab even though it wasn't in her job description and beneath her station.

Robert

 

[Seal87]

They're all research scientists or research engineers / warp field specialists / what have you. They publish original research. I don't understand why these folks don't have the equivalent of a PhD and aren't referred to as 'Doctor.' We know the PhD and non-medical 'Doctor' title still exist in the future.

Well, it could be something about the pursuit of more fulfilling things. And the lack of desire for accolades and wealth. After all, it's a lot of rigour in college, when there's space travel and things to discover. Right now, people spend time there and find it nets them very little afterward, other than debt. I imagine the pull of real life, would be even greater, when you can travel into space. Sure they could study on board the ship. But maybe it's like a Nobel or Pullitzer prize. Just doesn't mean so much in a galactic context.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

Well, it could be something about the pursuit of more fulfilling things. And the lack of desire for accolades and wealth. After all, it's a lot of rigour in college, when there's space travel and things to discover. Right now, people spend time there and find it nets them very little afterward, other than debt. I imagine the pull of real life, would be even greater, when you can travel into space. Sure they could study on board the ship. But maybe it's like a Nobel or Pullitzer prize. Just doesn't mean so much in a galactic context.

I think it is the opposite. The Federation claims to be a meritocracy, where success is defined as personal development and contributions to society. Picard constantly extolls the virtue of learning and exploration. Professors like Galen are accorded great respect. I would think that a doctorate, indicating a pursuit of knowledge to the bounds of present understanding would be considered a very respectable accomplishment in the Federation.

Perhaps they have reached the point where it is perfectly valid and acceptable to remain a doctoral student until well into your thirties or forties in order to truly comprehend your field. There's no financial pressure to finish up your degree and get a paying job. You have an expected lifespan in the 140s or longer. So then someone like Dax may actually have the equivalent of a 25-30 year education, but not yet meet the standards of a 24th century 40-year doctoral program.

I would have enjoyed seeing Geordi working on a doctoral dissertation in his spare time and getting his degree in the fourth or fifth year. Or Data casually mentioning he had just defended his thirtieth dissertation in a new field.

 

[Swedish Borg]

It's probably as simple as not needing to spend the time or the academic rigor in order to achieve their personal and career goals. Although there have been many doctorates who have flown space shuttle missions, most of those who came through the military have no more than a masters in engineering. I know at least one person who graduated from West Point and earned a doctorate on his way to becoming a general. Researching and writing his dissertation was a brake on his military career in the short term. In a society in which there would be more choices and opportunities, Spock et al probably ruled out graduate studies very early on, choosing Starfleet Academy over more academic options. The only one that I think could have earned a doctorate from what we see on the television is Dax, having six years to study the wormhole in detail.

Claudie Haigneré a French astronaut has like has like half a dozen doctorates and degrees in science and medicine.

 

[Seal87]

I think it is the opposite. The Federation claims to be a meritocracy, where success is defined as personal development and contributions to society. Picard constantly extolls the virtue of learning and exploration. Professors like Galen are accorded great respect. I would think that a doctorate, indicating a pursuit of knowledge to the bounds of present understanding would be considered a very respectable accomplishment in the Federation.

Perhaps they have reached the point where it is perfectly valid and acceptable to remain a doctoral student until well into your thirties or forties in order to truly comprehend your field. There's no financial pressure to finish up your degree and get a paying job. You have an expected lifespan in the 140s or longer. So then someone like Dax may actually have the equivalent of a 25-30 year education, but not yet meet the standards of a 24th century 40-year doctoral program.

I would have enjoyed seeing Geordi working on a doctoral dissertation in his spare time and getting his degree in the fourth or fifth year. Or Data casually mentioning he had just defended his thirtieth dissertation in a new field.

Galen is a great example of what I said. He's stuck on the ground.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

referring to so many characters as "doctor" would be confusing or something.

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[Bad Thoughts]

Claudie Haigneré a French astronaut has like has like half a dozen doctorates and degrees in science and medicine.

Precisely! She came up through academia, not through the military.

 

[NCC-73515]

Claudie Haigneré a French astronaut has like has like half a dozen doctorates and degrees in science and medicine.

It seems she has an MD, masters-level certificates, and a PhD... what else?

 

[Swedish Borg]

It seems she has an MD, masters-level certificates, and a PhD... what else?

Did you read the article?

 

[NCC-73515]

Did you read the article?

what article

 

[Takeru]

Maybe they have them and are just not addressed as "Doctor"

I work with doctors all the time and never call them that, we're either on first name basis and when not I address them as Mr/Mrs soandso, it's just not something that's done here. Should someone insist on being called doctor (which has never happened) I'd probably laugh in their face and tell them no. At least here in germany there's no right to be called doctor and insisting on it comes off as arrogant as fuck.

 

[NCC-73515]

Remember Chancellor Kohl?

"To you I'm not Mr. Kohl!" - "Mr. Dr. Kohl." - "So. We want some order between us. Yes, I want that. I want no intimacies with you." - "Me neither."

 

[Swedish Borg]

Maybe they have them and are just not addressed as "Doctor"

I work with doctors all the time and never call them that, we're either on first name basis and when not I address them as Mr/Mrs soandso, it's just not something that's done here. Should someone insist on being called doctor (which has never happened) I'd probably laugh in their face and tell them no. At least here in germany there's no right to be called doctor and insisting on it comes off as arrogant as fuck.

Some customs are different in the USA than in other countries, maybe this is one of them.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Remember Chancellor Kohl?

"To you I'm not Mr. Kohl!" - "Mr. Dr. Kohl." - "So. We want some order between us. Yes, I want that. I want no intimacies with you." - "Me neither."

I surmise that you're talking about the real Chancellor Kohl. What incident are you referring to? I don't remember that about him.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I work with doctors all the time and never call them that, we're either on first name basis and when not I address them as Mr/Mrs soandso, it's just not something that's done here. Should someone insist on being called doctor (which has never happened) I'd probably laugh in their face and tell them no. At least here in germany there's no right to be called doctor and insisting on it comes off as arrogant as fuck.

Some customs are different in the USA than in other countries, maybe this is one of them.

I've heard people introduce themselves as "Doktor" (or "Doktor Professor") more in Germany than in other countries, and although that address tends to drop away with familiarity, it is also the place where I have seen the most impatience when one assumes they could drop it. On the other hand, not only have I never had someone introduce themselves to me as "Docteur" in France, I've heard them actively discourage people from using it. The US is somewhere in the middle without any fast rules. Of course, the US is the only one amongst the three where someone who practices medicine is automatically referred to as as doctor (as opposed to medicin or Arzt).

 

[Takeru]

I've heard people introduce themselves as "Doktor" (or "Doktor Professor") more in Germany than in other countries, and although that address tends to drop away with familiarity, it is also the place where I have seen the most impatience when one assumes they could drop it.

Then your experience is very different from my own. But I'm not assuming I can unilaterally drop it, I can do that, there's in fact no right to be addressed as doctor of professor (when talking to someone, it is used when addressing someone in writing). Of course people can think they have that right but it doesn't make it true, it just makes them uninformed.

I consider people who insist on it to be assholes and would call them Mr. Soandso out of spite.

 

[Swedish Borg]

I've heard people introduce themselves as "Doktor" (or "Doktor Professor") more in Germany than in other countries, and although that address tends to drop away with familiarity, it is also the place where I have seen the most impatience when one assumes they could drop it. On the other hand, not only have I never had someone introduce themselves to me as "Docteur" in France, I've heard them actively discourage people from using it. The US is somewhere in the middle without any fast rules. Of course, the US is the only one amongst the three where someone who practices medicine is automatically referred to as as doctor (as opposed to medicin or Arzt).

I have a doctorate but since I never used it professionally (I looked at the paycheck and decided to go into the private sector). Not many people even know that about me. I still have the diploma though... Not on my wall but in a drawer.

 

[1001001]

I have a doctorate.

I instruct my lessors at work not to address me at all, nor make eye contact with me.

They are also to hug the walls when I'm walking down the hallway.

 

[Swedish Borg]

I have a doctorate.

I instruct my lessors at work not to address me at all, nor make eye contact with me.

They are also to hug the walls when I'm walking down the hallway.

They have you on a lease though.

 

[NCC-73515]

I surmise that you're talking about the real Chancellor Kohl. What incident are you referring to? I don't remember that about him.

It's a really well known thing in Germany:

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Of course, the US is the only one amongst the three where someone who practices medicine is automatically referred to as as doctor (as opposed to medicin or Arzt).

That's the same in Germany as well, and the general public automatically assumes that if you're a doctor, you must be a physician.