Ok, then let me rephrase it then. Starfleet in TOS is more sexist than the Romulans.
What is a Centurion's rank?
- Thread starter Scott Kellogg
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Ok, then let me rephrase it then. Starfleet in TOS is more sexist than the Romulans.
In a pilot that no one saw until very late. I think the 1990s.
Actually, that was Decius.
I always thought of Decius as the "Political Officer"
His mirror character in "The Enemy Below" seemed to be the Nazi equivalent of one, reading "Mein Kampf" and all.
Irrelevant.
To what?
"The Enterprise Incident" with the female Romulan Commander was written by D.C. Fontana.
Some of the other episodes she wrote (Not just for Trek) had an early Feminist direction.
(For example: I believe she wrote a story for "Logan's Run" where they visited an Islamic themed city where eventually, they freed the women from wearing Hijabs.)
I suspect that, for the time, a female commander would have been somewhat eyebrow raising for a 1960s audience.
Some of the other episodes she wrote (Not just for Trek) had an early Feminist direction.
(For example: I believe she wrote a story for "Logan's Run" where they visited an Islamic themed city where eventually, they freed the women from wearing Hijabs.)
I suspect that, for the time, a female commander would have been somewhat eyebrow raising for a 1960s audience.
Regardless of when anyone actually SAW it, the fact remains, it was made, and therefore was the intent at the time in which it was made.
Edit: Ninja'd by @J.T.B.
Number One is in command of the Enterprise in the "Menagerie" flashback scenes. So viewers didn't have THAT long to wait for it...
In "The Menagerie," in the first half of the first season.
I disagree. Nobody saw it before the airing of TNG so the overall impression was that as I said the Romulans were less sexist than Starfleet and nothing was said in the episodes THAT AIRED to contradict that.
Actually, "The Menagerie" was among the higher profile episodes on TOS, being the winner of a 1967 Hugo award and all [http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-history/1967-hugo-awards/]. A lot of people saw it at the time.
Just thinking out loud:
The only outright sexism I recall in TOS was in the episode I hate the most: "Turnabout Intruder"
But, the thing is, the one doing the complaining was Janice Lester, who, was obviously a crazy person who never got over Kirk dumping her (probably because she was a vengeful little nutjob long before she became a murderous vengeful little nutjob.)
But, it's been years since I saw that episode.
Maybe Janice Lester didn't make it in Starfleet because everyone else in it could tell she was a vengeful little nutjob and didn't want to let her anywhere near the command seat of a starship.
But the sad truth about vengeful little nutjobs is they don't know anyone else can tell that they've vengeful little nutjobs, so she had to find an excuse why she didn't make it in Starfleet and she blamed "Sexism" instead of herself.
The only outright sexism I recall in TOS was in the episode I hate the most: "Turnabout Intruder"
But, the thing is, the one doing the complaining was Janice Lester, who, was obviously a crazy person who never got over Kirk dumping her (probably because she was a vengeful little nutjob long before she became a murderous vengeful little nutjob.)
But, it's been years since I saw that episode.
Maybe Janice Lester didn't make it in Starfleet because everyone else in it could tell she was a vengeful little nutjob and didn't want to let her anywhere near the command seat of a starship.
But the sad truth about vengeful little nutjobs is they don't know anyone else can tell that they've vengeful little nutjobs, so she had to find an excuse why she didn't make it in Starfleet and she blamed "Sexism" instead of herself.
If I read "vengeful little nutjob" one more time, I think I am gonna become one myself...
(J/k)
I wouldn't list "The Menagerie" as a paragon of anti-sexism if I were you because in it Pike says that he's uncomfortable with women being on the bridge. What does that tell you? Plus it's filled with clichés of the damsel in distress kind. And the whole bullshit about Eve!!! Plus icing on the cake the final question "Who would have been Eve?" seriously! You want that to represent anti-sexism for the whole franchise? It does almost as much damage as the whole TOS episodes put together in their worst aspects.
Ah, yes, exactly. Just the term I was looking for.
No -- Logan's Run: "Turnabout" was written by Michael Michaelian and Al Hayes (story by Michaelian), though Fontana was the story editor. You're confusing it with The Fantastic Journey: "Turnabout" from the previous year. That was a horrifically sexist episode in which a bunch of slave women led by Joan Collins overthrew their male oppressors, only to turn out to be utterly terrible at governing themselves, needing the male heroes to save them, and finally realizing they needed their big strong menfolk to love them as long as they agreed not to be mean anymore. To modern eyes, it plays like a whole society of abused women believing their abusers when they promise it’ll be different from now on -- and Fontana saw that as a happy ending. It's horrifying.
Really, D.C. Fontana's writing isn't particularly feminist at all. The closest thing to a feminist statement in "Charlie X" is "Don't swat women on the butt," and "Journey to Babel" portrays Amanda as rather subservient to her husband. Yes, there's a female commander in "The Enterprise Incident," but like most female officers in Trek, she's a total slave to her emotions and easily manipulated by an enemy with designs against her ship.
That line was cut out of the aired version of "The Menagerie," and is only present in the pilot version now known as "The Cage."
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Yeah, sorry I don't know each version word for word but how about the bullshit about "Eve", was that cut out as well?
He was the first officer, he just happened to be a Nazi idealogue.
All I said was that it showed Number One in command of the ship, which it did.
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How so? We see exactly one female Romulan, we have no idea if she's the exception or the rule. We also have Number One, obviously on the command track, in "The Cage" and "The Menagerie". We also don't know if she's the exception or the rule, but based on later TOS she was likely an exception.
All I know is that Balance of Terror is a masterpiece and The Enterprise Incident . . . isn't.
On the question of Romulan gender egalitarianism, The Making of Star Trek said they had complete equality while Klingons saw women as "sometime useful animals." (The book was published before "Day of the Dove.") In theory, the Federation was supposed to be egalitarian too, though the show fell short in depicting that.
To be fair to Fontana, though, "Incident" was rewritten in ways she wasn't fond of.
To be fair to Fontana, though, "Incident" was rewritten in ways she wasn't fond of.
We see Number One in command of the ship, but we don't see her as the Captain of her own ship.
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