The Fall of Joss Whedon

[Jayson1]

W

No citation, I shouldn't insinuate Braga and actually think many celebrity take downs can get hysterical (and I still give even Kevin Spacey some benefit of a doubt), though there's more grounds and circumstantial evidence around Rick Berman (who sounded more like a spiteful, inappropriate, and overbearing manager than a typical abuser, like Joss Whedon).

Wouldn't that put Berman and Whedon in the same camp though. Whedon hasn't been accused I think of sexual misconduct. But mostly being a bully who threw his weight around to get what he wanted. Or just because he thought it was funny like trying to make writers cry.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Good stuff, but you’re just wasting keystrokes on certain people.

Could you provide a link to this information? Not that I don't believe you, because I do, I would just like have access to that information myself.

It's just wikipedia.

They have been examining the brains of dead trans people, and found that cis men and trans men had the same shape brains, and that trans women and cis women had the same shape brains. There's a lot more to it, and the studies didn't use a large sample.

Meanwhile in 2009ish a genetic marker was found that is unique to trans people. The marker doesn't make anyone trans, it's just a flag on the field.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

I think the page is different from when I read it, which is what happens with wikipedia, or it was a completely different page.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Whedon hasn't been accused I think of sexual misconduct.

There was the "Joss isn't allowed to be in a room by himself with [at the time underage] Michelle Trachtenberg" rule on Buffy. It was never made clear exactly why he wasn't, but apparently something happened that the other cast and crew felt the need to protect her from Whedon.

 

[DigificWriter]

Child actors aren't allowed to be alone in a room with anyone (excepting their legal guardians) as a general rule, so Michelle's comments aren't really indicative of anything.

 

[Jayson1]

There was the "Joss isn't allowed to be in a room by himself with [at the time underage] Michelle Trachtenberg" rule on Buffy. It was never made clear exactly why he wasn't, but apparently something happened that the other cast and crew felt the need to protect her from Whedon.

That's troublesome but it could be they didn't want him being bully around her. Especially since she was so young.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Child actors aren't allowed to be alone in a room with anyone (excepting their legal guardians) as a general rule, so Michelle's comments aren't really indicative of anything.

 

[Jayson1]

Well it is indicative of something. It just isn't guaranteed the concern was sexual in nature. He has enough non sexual bullying complaints their could be numerous reasons why people were concerned.

 

[Timby]

Child actors aren't allowed to be alone in a room with anyone (excepting their legal guardians) as a general rule, so Michelle's comments aren't really indicative of anything.

Trachtenberg saying that "we know what he did," that she "was subjected to a lot," and that Whedon's actions were "very bad" isn't indicative of anything?

Really?

Really?

 

[Snaploud]

Technically, she said the rule was that she wouldn't be allowed alone with Whedon "again," which would imply an incident of some sort.

 

[BillJ]

Child actors aren't allowed to be alone in a room with anyone (excepting their legal guardians) as a general rule, so Michelle's comments aren't really indicative of anything.

Seems like you go to bat often for people of poor character...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Child actors aren't allowed to be alone in a room with anyone (excepting their legal guardians) as a general rule, so Michelle's comments aren't really indicative of anything.

Well it is indicative of something. It just isn't guaranteed the concern was sexual in nature. He has enough non sexual bullying complaints their could be numerous reasons why people were concerned.

Both of you are dangerously naïve.

 

[Saul]

Wasn't there something about B&B getting annoyed about Diane Carey's novelization of 'Broken Bow' and basically made sure she never wrote a Star Trek book again?

 

[Jayson1]

Both of you are dangerously naïve.

It isn't naive.They guy has issues beyond bring a sexual creep. I'm not saying that theory isn't true but it could almost be anything from this guy.

 

[cooleddie74]

Wasn't there something about B&B getting annoyed about Diane Carey's novelization of 'Broken Bow' and basically made sure she never wrote a Star Trek book again?

She more or less wrote the entire novelization through a tongue-in-cheek perspective and inserted humor skewering the plot of the premiere. Apparently she wasn't too enamored of the story.

 

[David cgc]

Wasn't there something about B&B getting annoyed about Diane Carey's novelization of 'Broken Bow' and basically made sure she never wrote a Star Trek book again?

I don't think that's really relevant to any charges of sexism or bullying. Carey had been editorializing about how lousy she thought the scripts she was novelizing were in her Trek books for a while. If anything, she's probably the one who was benefiting from an unhealthy professional culture since her quick turnaround times and good sales meant she was able to get away with being shitty about her assignments for as long as she did. Here are some examples of what they weren't happy with in the novelization, and the thread has some more discussion about Carey's work in general.

 

[Mudd]

Honestly, Carey probably only was able to get an assignment at all because GR was dead and Fontana was long gone.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Child actors aren't allowed to be alone in a room with anyone (excepting their legal guardians) as a general rule, so Michelle's comments aren't really indicative of anything.

This statement is not only wrong, but also includes the get out clause of "as a general rule" so you can argue you were if fact, not wrong...

There are 17 states in the US that have no child labour regulations at all.

In california, they do, but in regards to the entertainment industry, the only relatable law is that, whilst on-set, a child should be accompanied by an adult at all times for safety. That's not even in the child labour laws, but rather in the health and safety regulations. But, even then that does not need to be a parent, authorised guardian or specifically nominated person. Just someone deemed responsible from the production team.

I can't link directly to the legislation, but this handy guide does contain the link.

https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/child-actor-labor-laws/

Similarly, the following site indicates there may be production specific rules, on top of the law, but that's not what you're stating.

So, Joss Whedon can have a meeting alone with a child employee anywhere without a guardian or parent even on set, because he would be acting in the guardian role.

The fact that his own production crew had to ensure he specifically wasn't allowed to be alone with Ms Trachtenburg indicates that there was a potential safety issue in regards to him, be that negligence to her safety, inappropriate or dangerous behaviour, or a whole host of others.

Hugo - and, let's wait

 

[JD]

Yes, and whatever you decide in any given instance as you assess the likelihood that someone whose work you admire is a "genuinely good person" is about as valid as a coin flip.

When did I say that it was? You seem to be responding to things I didn't say.

Harvey Weinstein was "fine" until it was publicly revealed he wasn't. I give "he/she seems perfectly nice, sweet and fine" with a grain of salt the size of a Death Star.

Isn't that what the neighbors of serial killers say?

So all people who create a hit TV show, or a blockbuster movie, or a bestselling book, ect. are automatically horrible people.
All I was trying to say with my post, is that I find it hard to believe that all of the hundreds or thousands of people who create popular works of art have to be horrible people. I would like to think that it is possible for decent people create good art.
I've been trying my hand at writing for a while, and I'd hate to think that people are going to assume I'm another just Joss Whedon, or Harvey Weinstein, or Kevin Spacey just because I'm a writer.

Child actors aren't allowed to be alone in a room with anyone (excepting their legal guardians) as a general rule, so Michelle's comments aren't really indicative of anything.

From the comments that were made, it sounds like this was in response to a specific incident involving Whedon, not just a general rule for all adults.

 

[David cgc]

Honestly, Carey probably only was able to get an assignment at all because GR was dead and Fontana was long gone.

I don't remember anything about Carey and Roddenberry having any kind of bad blood. Are you thinking of Diane Duane and the whole Romulan thing?

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't remember anything about Carey and Roddenberry having any kind of bad blood.

Roddenberry had Carey banned from writing Trek novels after she dedicated her TNG novel Ghost Ship to a friend of hers killed in military service. "Star Trek is not about the military" speaketh Gene. That ban wasn't lifted until after Roddenberry died.