Why was a Captain in command of Voyager?

[Lynx]

According to Memory Alpha, Voyager's original chief engineer was only mentioned briefly (not even their gender was established) and did not appear on screen. The novel The Brave and the Bold, Book Two identified them as a male named as Alexander Honigsberg. The short story "Letting Go" has him survived by a son, Davey.

 

[suarezguy]

Real world, with Deep Space Nine the franchise had already done, was still doing its show where the lead/commanding officer was so young he wasn't even actually Captain yet, to me that felt kind of trying too hard and it would have been even more so if it happened in Voyager also. Let the lead/leader of the lost ship be Captain (and authorized from the beginning rather than a sort of even necessary self-promotion).

 

[ThatsMrCaptaintoyou]

On a related note, shouldn't Cavit and Chakotay have been full commanders, given that they were XO?

Sisko was a LCDR on the Saratoga as well

 

[Oddish]

Obviously, under Starfleet doctrine, a CO is a captain for any capital ship (which Voyager is), an XO can be either LCDR or commander.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

capital ship (which Voyager is)

No, it isn't. Well, certainly not by any vaguely modern definition.

Capital ship has always referred to the largest of warships, and indeed specifically excluded "cruising vessels" (frigates and sloops of war et al) and was therefore until recently synonymous with "ship of the line" (during the Age of Sail) and battleships and battlecruisers during the World Wars.

The modern definition of the "capital ship" is generally taken to refer to carriers as far as operational ships go as they have taken over the lead role, although SSBNs are sometimes at least symbolically included due to their strategic importance (and apparently having a similar tonnage).

I could just about accept that the Galaxy-class is a capital ship, but the Intrepid-class is far too small and lightly crewed for that designation.

 

[Oddish]

Let me rephrase, then. The XO of a capital ship (like Enterprise) is probably a commander, while a non-capital ship like Voyager rates a LCDR. Hence, Riker was a LCDR when Picard selected him, but had three full pips from the beginning. The CO is a four-pipper either way.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Let me rephrase, then. The XO of a capital ship (like Enterprise) is probably a commander, while a non-capital ship like Voyager rates a LCDR. Hence, Riker was a LCDR when Picard selected him, but had three full pips from the beginning. The CO is a four-pipper either way.

Yes, I would agree that even if for some odd reason that all CO's are Captains, XO rank should vary depending on the size of the ship or installation. Very large starships might even have "co-captains" (similar to modern supercarriers), although this is more likely for starbases, but if not then the XO would be a full commander; mid to small-sized starships but still generalist ships like the Excelsiors, Nebulas, Intrepids et al would get a lieutenant commander; small relatively single purpose vessels, particularly transports and survey vessels might only rate an experienced lieutenant.

 

[cooleddie74]

Wasn't Number One in "The Cage(TOS)" and in "Q & A(SHO)" a Lieutenant Commander and she's already the second-in-command aboard the Enterprise? If the ship in 2253 and 2254 had a full Commander they weren't the XO.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Wasn't Number One in "The Cage(TOS)" and in "Q & A(SHO)" a Lieutenant Commander and she's already the second-in-command aboard the Enterprise? If the ship in 2253 and 2254 had a full Commander they weren't the XO.

The Enterprise that is referring to is the Enterprise-D. Most sources identify the Constitution is a (heavy) cruiser, or broadly a "cruising vessel" in Age of Sail terms.
However, as far as Number One goes, she was the second-in-command (or acting CO) during all her appearances. Technically, per dialogue in The Cage she told have been a Lieutenant, however she was consisting depicted as a Lieutenant Commander during her appearances in Discovery so this is could be https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness.

 

[Timo]

Wasn't Number One in "The Cage(TOS)" and in "Q & A(SHO)" a Lieutenant Commander and she's already the second-in-command aboard the Enterprise? If the ship in 2253 and 2254 had a full Commander they weren't the XO.

Actually, she was unambiguously called "Lieutenant" in "The Cage", matching her sleeve braid.

Since we later learn her actual name is "Number One" (even if in a different language), perhaps she isn't the ship's XO, though? Perhaps the XO was among the casualties, recuperating in sickbay, and the lowly LT Una, the most experienced officer still standing on her own two feet, was filling in?

Her braid is reinvented as LCDR for "Q&A" and no doubt for SNW as well, though. At least the former takes place before "The Cage", meaning she got demoted at some point! Pike, too, loses his Captain braid and gets LT braid instead for the duration of "The Cage"; it would be interesting to have Starfleet give Constitutions to a Lieutenant when they have but 200 crew, and to a Commander ("WNMHGB") or Captain (TOS) when they have 430...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[yotsuya]

In the US Navy, all active duty ships are commanded by a captain. Be it a destroyer or an aircraft carrier. Very small ships, like a PT Boat, and inactive ships have lower ranked officers in command. USS Costitution has a long history of commanders and during her inactive period since 1881, she has often been commanded by officers as lowly as Lieutenant J.G.. She hasn't had a commander of the rank of Captain since 1881.

So Voyager being commanded by a Captain is absolutely normal and expected. And having a command staff of Lt Cmdrs is also expected. Nothing about the staffing it in any way out of the ordinary. Voyager is a destroy while the Enterprise D or E is an aircraft carrier.

 

[J.T.B.]

In the US Navy, all active duty ships are commanded by a captain. Be it a destroyer or an aircraft carrier.

No. Most opportunities to command at sea in the USN are at the commander level.

Captain: CVN, CG, LHA, LHD, LPD, Zumwalt class DDG
Commander: DDG (except Zumwalt class), FFG, LCS, LSD, SSBN, SSN
Lieutenant Commander: MCM, PC

 

[Timo]

...Where on this continuum our hero ships sit is not always clear. We generally see smaller ships around, but it's seldom that we would actually hear the heroes are riding the biggest thing out there; TNG basically comes the closest, as even the big bad Abramsverse ships are easily upstaged by a giant vessel apparently built in secret!

The range of possible CO ranks is broad, too, ranging from Commodore down to apparent Lieutenant, sometimes in sync with relative ship size, sometimes not. Despite the valiant efforts of the VFX artists, the rank range really is broader than the size range...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jedman67]

...Where on this continuum our hero ships sit is not always clear. We generally see smaller ships around, but it's seldom that we would actually hear the heroes are riding the biggest thing out there; TNG basically comes the closest, as even the big bad Abramsverse ships are easily upstaged by a giant vessel apparently built in secret!

The range of possible CO ranks is broad, too, ranging from Commodore down to apparent Lieutenant, sometimes in sync with relative ship size, sometimes not. Despite the valiant efforts of the VFX artists, the rank range really is broader than the size range...

Timo Saloniemi

Hero ships are all Starships (as opposed to shuttlecraft, runabout or transport variants).
Starship CO's are all Captain, TNG+ (except for the Defiant, which didn't have a permanently assigned crew). On rare occasions, commodores or admirals are put in charge of a ship, sometimes as the acting captain and sometimes as the "captain's captain." We don't see any occasion on which a commodore or admiral is assigned as a ships 'permanent' captain.

 

[Timo]

Well, the Defiant is the exception to a rule of three: Kirk's, Picard's and Janeway's ships. The Discovery is captained by an Ensign at one point. So the statistics aren't particularly convincing in support of any particular model. Guest stars in guest ships can go whichever way, and at one point, the highest-ranking officer on a giant Nebula was a Lieutenant (j.g.). We're still inventing excuses for that one...

We don't see any occasion on which a commodore would be assigned as a ship's 'temporary' captain, either. Decker is there apparently to stay; so is Wesley. Or then they aren't, but the point is that we aren't told. We never saw Decker's command chair, but Wesley commanded from the seat of the ship's skipper rather than from a separate Flag seat, so there's that.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Redshirt214]

A thought which may (or may not) be relevant: it seems to me that many first officersand department heads are Lt. Commanders, who by rank can command the ship (and presumably have passed the command test) in absence of the Captain. So possibly this is the reason we see so many Captains by rank and position, they have outrank their No 1s.

I'd personally say that anything Excelsior or larger ought to have a captain, being more of a ship of the line, whereas smaller ships like say Miranda or Oberth could easily be commanded by just a Lt Commander or equivalent. That was how the system worked in the Age of Sail and Discovery, which is where Star Trek got most of it's ideas about ships from. A Lieutenant Commander was literally a Lieutenant Commanding!

 

[Redshirt214]

The issue with Commodores in TOS is probably derived from early US Navy practice, as we didn't have many Admirals pre-Civil War (ships were seldom grouped in anything more than a single squadron) so mostly Commodore was a position for squadron commanders (with captain being their rank). Presumably Roddenbury meant to echo this in the Original Series, so Kirk would mostly be on his own making tough policy decisions, and only occasionally meet with his immediate superiors, who would just barely outrank him (and even then mostly on seniority, which was how you decided who of an equal rank was the superior officer back in the day). I think in Kirk's day what Admirals there were, were all back at headquarters on Earth, hence why we don't see much of them. They are the "Admiralty", flying desks, whilst the Starships are all commanded by Captains, with a few senior officers being Commodores\Fleet Captains leading squadrons of ships in the field.

TNG seems to follow a more modern system where everyone seems to be either a Captain by rank or an Admiral, perhaps because they are a more peacetime force that has rank inflation? So prahaps Starfleet in the 23rd century did have more Lt Commanders in charge of ships, but by the 24th century those positions were all filled by full captains.

Realistically, it's probably because the writers didn't think that viewers would understand the difference between rank and position. I'd much prefer that Lt Commanders and the like have the opportunity to command a ship before they become a Captain, it seems the more logical choice.

 

[Timo]

Well, the practical purpose of using Commodores is clear enough: the audience has to recognize these characters as Kirk's factual bosses, people who can quote regulations to send the hero of the show packing. Decker has to be the formally superior starship CO so that he can put both Kirk and his ship in this crazy jeopardy. Wesley has to be a menace, too, even if a benevolent one. Tracey gets to be but a peer because he's mean enough even as a "mirror Kirk", and Finney gets to strike under the belt from a low-rank position, but they are exceptions to the rule that Kirk's interactions with Starfleet must be antagonist and with Starfleet having the theoretical upper hand.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[yotsuya]

No. Most opportunities to command at sea in the USN are at the commander level.

Captain: CVN, CG, LHA, LHD, LPD, Zumwalt class DDG
Commander: DDG (except Zumwalt class), FFG, LCS, LSD, SSBN, SSN
Lieutenant Commander: MCM, PC

I'm not sure that has always been the case. Much of Star Trek is based on WWII rather than the post war period (because several people on the original production were WWII Navy vets).

And it can be confusing because the CO of any ship is the Captain, regardless of rank.

 

[J.T.B.]

I'm not sure that has always been the case. Much of Star Trek is based on WWII rather than the post war period (because several people on the original production were WWII Navy vets).

Here's a US Pacific Fleet list at the end of WW2 with commanding officers:
https://www.history.navy.mil/resear...u/us-pacific-fleet-organization-1may1945.html

When you get down to the destroyers, escorts, submarines, minesweepers and landing ships, you see vast numbers of commanders and below in command.