Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

[Grendelsbayne]

Red Skull proclaimed himself a god and rightful ruler of humanity and was planning on burning the world down to get them to bow down to him, Walker is again acting like a movie cowboy cop on steroids.

He isn't Red Skull until he starts ranting about a new world order.

Yes lets be sympathetic to the chick going on about how great things were when half of humanity was dead and who is giving the textbook they were in my way justifications every bloody handed authoritarian gives while building a throne of corpses.

There's nothing sympathetic about saying she started from a genuine place and became a monster. I'm just not going to be any more 'sympathetic' to the man who thinks some medals, a colorful shield and a super soldier serum gives him the right to be judge, jury and executioner (even if he literally executes the wrong person) and is willing to fight and kill innocent people just to avoid even the slightest admission that he could possibly be wrong. Even he also seems to have started from a genuine place.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

There's nothing sympathetic about saying she started from a genuine place and became a monster.

No it just comes off as trying to pull some both sides are the same bullshit by twisting things around.

Kind of like you just keep ignoring how Red Skull had a major world domination streak thats was kind of a big thing for the character because you just don't want to admit that Karli is set up as the bigger bad guy.

I'm just not going to be any more 'sympathetic' to the man who thinks some medals, a colorful shield and a super soldier serum gives him the right to be judge, jury and executioner (even if he literally executes the wrong person) and is willing to fight and kill innocent people just to avoid even the slightest admission that he could possibly be wrong. Even he also seems to have started from a genuine place.

Its called being in the middle of a mental break down Einstein. As opposed to a few days after a death and being rational when deciding to burn three people alive and then plan to murder another guy.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

No it just comes off as trying to pull some both sides are the same bullshit by twisting things around.

Kind of like you just keep ignoring how Red Skull had a major world domination streak thats was kind of a big thing for the character because you just don't want to admit that Karli is set up as the bigger bad guy.



Its called being in the middle of a mental break down Einstein. As opposed to a few days after a death and being rational when deciding to burn three people alive and then plan to murder another guy.

I really don't know why you're apparently taking this so seriously, but I said she was worse like five posts ago. Her being worse doesn't make him not terrible. Nor does it change the fact that he's still getting worse, too. And 'mental break' is not an excuse for what he's done.

 

[Reverend]

For me the key difference between the two is that Karli isn't a lost cause; she can find her way back (after spending a few years in a cell right next to Zemo's) because her actions are motivated by compassion and selflessness.
Walker on the other hand is already too far gone because all he's driven by is ego and a sense of entitlement about three miles high. He'll never see the wrong in what he does because in his mind, he's a hero and thus anything he does is by definition a heroic act.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I really don't know why you're apparently taking this so seriously

Because its a frankly stupid comparison.

Nor does it change the fact that he's still getting worse, too.

He isn't set up to get that much worse since still in cowboy cop on steroids mode and going as far as you seem to think is going to need him to do way more than an ill advised fight with terrorists and the protagonists.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

For me the key difference between the two is that Karli isn't a lost cause; she can find her way back (after spending a few years in a cell right next to Zemo's) because her actions are motivated by compassion and selflessness.

Thats worked with how many firebrand revolutionaries again?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Question – is this the first end credit scene of the show? Normally, we have fast forwarded, but seeing John Walker’s bootleg shield…so a preview for the final episode? Or dropping something for a future project (which Marvel credit scenes often do, dropping a hint for a different movie, rather than the sequel, if not following up on something previous in the movie))

Yup, this was the first mid-credits scene. I suspect we'll get both a mid-credits scene and a post-credits scene like we did with WandaVisions' finale.

As for the meaning of that scene, I expect it's set-up directly for the finale and possibly beyond depending on how it ends (I assume we'll see more of John Walker, especially considering his meeting with Val).

 

[Aragorn]

Both villains/antagonists are severely underwritten. There are rumblings that COVID shooting completely changed everything about the Flag-Smashers, but who knows.

 

[wayoung]

Both villains/antagonists are severely underwritten. There are rumblings that COVID shooting completely changed everything about the Flag-Smashers, but who knows.

That would make sense. The whole series feels rushed, like it should have been 10 episodes, to spend a couple on the refugees and Karli & John Walker

 

[The Nth Doctor]

That would make sense. The whole series feels rushed, like it should have been 10 episodes, to spend a couple on the refugees and Karli & John Walker

The season was always intended to be six episodes. I don't remember how much, but I'm pretty sure they had already filmed most of the season before COVID hit.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Red Skull wanted to take over the world Walker is just going too far trying to stop terrorists and sounding like a movie cop on steroids the only one close to talking world domination is Karli.

The blinders-on desire to impose one's will on another (demand it) has dictatorial behavior at its root, whether its attempting to control one, a group, or a nation. The root is the key, and Walker's astoundingly hostile behavior, pre-and post serum demands for others to obey him, or--when confronted--he attempts to kill draws him to the kind of personality which fueled the Red Skull. It all starts somewhere, and if MC/TVU Walker ever has more appearances with an organization behind him, I have no doubt audiences would see the beginning of yet another evil agency with Walker as its active figurehead.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

if MC/TVU Walker ever has more appearances with an organization behind him

If its Thunderbolts he probably matches the comics version which is on team good guy just being an asshole about it.

I mean I doubt they would be making Zemo more anti-heroy just to make The Thunderbolts vilains.

 

[StarMan]

Aka Contessa was probably right about him only coming down on Walker becuase the optics and is pretty much connected to just about everything going wrong in this show in some way.

Yeah, I'm assuming if Walker had done the same thing without hundreds of camera-armed witnesses, they wouldn't bat an eyelid.

 

[Jayson1]

I forgot. Does the government know he took the serum? I would not be surprised if the government or the power broker might try and kill Walker in order to keep that a secret. I could see him going rogue and we see him become part of something akin to Trumpism. Remember they hate the political establishment as well. Right now you don't have a good metaphor for Trumpism in the M.C.U. The Flag smashers are obviously Antifa. This would create another link to the real world.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Not this shit again.

 

[JD]

The season was always intended to be six episodes. I don't remember how much, but I'm pretty sure they had already filmed most of the season before COVID hit.

Yeah, back when WandaVision started Kevin Feige said that all of the shows will have a total runtime of 6hrs, with the only difference being the number of episodes it took them to get there.

if MC/TVU

Why do you keep referring to this as the MC/TVU? These shows are all equal part of the MCU as the movies, it's not a separate universe.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I assume its because, as TV shows they aren't "cinema". It won't catch on.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I could see him going rogue and we see him become part of something akin to Trumpism.

A bit ironic seeing as the terrorist organization members he flipped out and beat to death were far-right nuts that sound like Trumpists.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You should review Trump's immigration policy sometime.

Why do you keep referring to this as the MC/TVU? These shows are all equal part of the MCU as the movies, it's not a separate universe.

Agents of Shield was supposed to be firmly attached to the MCU.

It was not.

When they mentioned the Invasion of New York in Daredevil, we thought everything was connected.

It was not.

Inhumans was so distant from the Movie Universe they were hesitant about saying the words "Tony Stark".

 

[The Nth Doctor]

*sigh*

It's going to be a long six days...