Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

[Anwar]

The latest trailer for the show has scenes of Walker in full dress uniform, saying "I AM Captain America" and looking not worried.

....I think he's either at Lemar's funeral, or he's being given ANOTHER Medal because the twist is that the Government will praise him for what he did.

 

[kirk55555]

Yeah, I think Walker is going to be praised for his actions, its what I'd expect from the US in real life, and probably fits what the show is going for more (and used as another example of why Falcon should have kept the shield).

I do think that Walker will eventually cross a line where he actually no longer gets supported by the government, but I don't think that killing that guy will be the line, although it will probably make the general public hate/not trust him (which will probably make him more unhinged).

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

If they go realism, then the perception of him will almost be a 50/50 split in the US, most of the rest of the world detest hate him.

 

[kirk55555]

If they go realism, then the perception of him will almost be a 50/50 split in the US, most of the rest of the world detest hate him.

That is probably true, but since the show has taken place mostly outside the US, I don't know if that will really come up. In this latest episode he had a random woman come up and ask for his autograph, and I think they may do a scene to contrast that with what he's become (maybe he'll try to be friendly to random civilians and they'll recoil in fear, which will just make him angry). But, however it goes, I doubt he'll be dropping the Shield/title yet, that will probably happen either during or at the end of the last episode, assuming he survives (which I'm betting he does).

 

[FreezeC77]

If they go realism, then the perception of him will almost be a 50/50 split in the US, most of the rest of the world detest hate him.

I think in our world is different than the MCU in the aspect I think Captain America is probably more well-respected worldwide in the MCU than "America" is respected worldwide in our world.

I also think in terms of our America's response to 'terrorism/threats' its different because not every country/city in the world has the same experiences with terrorism... except in the MCU *EVERY* single city had people snapped away 5 years prior and then had them return. So I think every single city in the world has felt and dealt with the issues the Flag Smashers say they are 'fighting for' and every city will have strong views on it.

I would believe there's likely to be more support worldwide in the MCU for what John Walker's Captain America did to a flag smasher than if in our world an American soldier was caught on camera brutalizing someone with a terrorist group.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

The latest trailer for the show has scenes of Walker in full dress uniform, saying "I AM Captain America" and looking not worried.

....I think he's either at Lemar's funeral, or he's being given ANOTHER Medal because the twist is that the Government will praise him for what he did.

I'll have to watch that again, but my impression was that it was part of the scenes from earlier episodes that began the trailer.

I would believe there's likely to be more support worldwide in the MCU for what John Walker's Captain America did to a flag smasher than if in our world an American soldier was caught on camera brutalizing someone with a terrorist group.

Which leaves me thinking about those private security contractors that Trump pardoned just before he left office. The ones who gunned down a bunch of children in Iraq. Not wanting to start a debate here, but there are two very different pov's about this in our world.

Walker was operating in a foreign country, not as a member of the U.S. military or as part of any official military action. His actions would be considered murder and probably an act of terrorism by most countries' definition, but I think the view in the U.S. would be more divided.

 

[JD]

Didn't the comic version of Walker become a secret black ops government assassin as USAgent after Steven Rogers took back the shield and Cap title? If so I'm assuming the TV show version's story will end the same way.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Didn't the comic version of Walker become a secret black ops government assassin as USAgent after Steven Rogers took back the shield and Cap title? If so I'm assuming the TV show version's story will end the same way.

Maybe?

But one of the more notable things he did was join the West Coast Avengers with out anyone asking him to. He just walked into into their kitchen and poured a bowl of cornflakes, and asserted dominance.

Decades later he had missing limbs, and he was the warden to the super hero prison, during the first Superhero Civil War, and every one seemed to respect him, for unspecified accomplishments.

I think there was a scene were he misplaced his artificial leg and won a fight while hopping. A literal one legged man in an ass kicking competition.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Is that current? I'm reading the latest USAgent series and I don't recall any missing limbs being mentioned. Also he's an (ex)government agent, but not an assassin. Ironically he's also lost the title USAgent and has been replaced.

 

[Xerxes82]

Is that current? I'm reading the latest USAgent series and I don't recall any missing limbs being mentioned. Also he's an (ex)government agent, but not an assassin. Ironically he's also lost the title USAgent and has been replaced.

He got better. Back around Civil War/Secret Invasion/Dark Reign era he definitely had multiple prosthetics. And don't quote me on this, because I'm far from an expert on the character, but I believe when Jonathan Hickman destroyed and then later restored the Marvel Universe in Secret War that John Walker was returned to being fully able bodied.

As an aside, Christopher Priest's mini being published right now has been excellent. I've never read a proper John Walker book, but I really enjoy the voice Priest gives him. It makes me curious to check out some of the older stories with the character.

 

[Jayson1]

I think I got the ending of the show figured out. Zemo is playing everyone. Including the Power Broker who wants actual power and decided to work with Zemo but he is setting up the Power Broker who I think is Bucky's therapist. . She made it so Sharon Carter doesn't get a pardon unless she works for her. She gives the Flag smashers super soldier serum the government had in order to create a enemy in need of a Captain America.She picked John Walker who is a soldier who will follow orders and knows his psych profile thus Zemo knew as well. She even helped the Winter Soldier become more active. Sam is the loose canon who hasn't been manipulated. Zemo can now say though the government and heroes are to blame for everything. Through the Power Broker they created terrorist, a unstable killer who seems to above the law and even had the Winter Soldier and another hero in Falcon going around the world dealing with criminals and breaking a mass murderer like Zemo out without any authority. Sam in the end takes the Shield. And becomes Captain America by stopping the Flag Smasher and Walker and in the end he and Bucky go back on the lam but not before sending the Shield to a secret moon base were old man Steve Rogers is with a note. "Not ready for it. Will be though. Watch over it until then. Which might be in season 2. Or maybe he sends it to Isaiah Bradley for safe keeping instead. Show ends with him holding the Shield.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I think I got the ending of the show figured out. Zemo is playing everyone. Including the Power Broker who wants actual power and decided to work with Zemo but he is setting up the Power Broker who I think is Bucky's therapist. . She made it so Sharon Carter doesn't get a pardon unless she works for her. She gives the Flag smashers super soldier serum the government had in order to create a enemy in need of a Captain America.She picked John Walker who is a soldier who will follow orders and knows his psych profile thus Zemo knew as well. She even helped the Winter Soldier become more active. Sam is the loose canon who hasn't been manipulated. Zemo can now say though the government and heroes are to blame for everything. Through the Power Broker they created terrorist, a unstable killer who seems to above the law and even had the Winter Soldier and another hero in Falcon going around the world dealing with criminals and breaking a mass murderer like Zemo out without any authority. Sam in the end takes the Shield. And becomes Captain America by stopping the Flag Smasher and Walker and in the end he and Bucky go back on the lam but not before sending the Shield to a secret moon base were old man Steve Rogers is with a note. "Not ready for it. Will be though. Watch over it until then. Which might be in season 2. Or maybe he sends it to Isaiah Bradley for safe keeping instead. Show ends with him holding the Shield.

I was actually with you up till the last bit with the moon. Anyway, its as plausible as anything I've been thinking. I loved Amy Aquino on Bosch, I'd love her to be the PB.

 

[dupersuper]

As a certain poster in this thread has already proved.

His "Joker" wasn't even the Joker anyways.

How do you figure?

 

[FPAlpha]

One small and obvious detail i really like is how Walker goes from clean shaven model soldier in his presentation and as the story and episodes progress he has ever more stubble in his face ( and not the coolsexy kind) until he is confronted by Bucky and Sam in the trailer where he just looks unappealing. It just shows in a physically obvious way his mental deterioration.

You never saw Steve like this.. either completely clean shaven or with a proper beard.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

That should be a comment on how despite decades' worth of experiments, the super soldier formula is largely a failure, as it cannot correct the inherent flaws in any individual, so if that's proven (through Walker, the Red Skull, et al.), then there would be no sense in giving the serum to those who were (in all obviousness) psychologically unfit to handle it, or--as Erskine explained to Steve--would magnify traits (including the negative) that already exist in the individual. If MCU/TV Walker goes down the path of the comics' 50s Cap (retconned), who already held beliefs that were then uncontrollable once he was given his poor version of the serum.

 

[Guy Gardener]

50's Cap's Bucky is Nomad.

I think they had to "fix" him when he got out of Hibernation, but he's been fine since the early 80s.

Nothing sneaky, but I think Zemo is going to buy the Wilson's boat for the Wilsons from the bank, as a thank you.

Between this and WandaVision, Disney Plus REALLY wants us to stream Age of Ultron.

 

[Anwar]

How do you figure?

He was some random hobo terrorist who has somehow omniscient and omnipotent without any reasoning given, despite being some random Hobo. A good, but lazily written, terrorist type. But not the Joker. Him always having a plan, always bombs in the right place, and always managing to get in everywhere and kill anyone he wanted (like the Commissioner and that Judge) were annoying too.

Also, no on really bothers pointing out flaws in his arguments which is just another sign of lazy writing. Except Batman right at the end, and even then it was half-heartedly done.

50's Cap's Bucky is Nomad.

I think they had to "fix" him when he got out of Hibernation, but he's been fine since the early 80s.

For a long time, Nomad had his own issues. Kept acting like an anti-authority James Dean type and got on everyones' nerves.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nomad/Bucky is dead. Killed by Winter Soldier/Bucky.

 

[Anwar]

So another trailer got dropped, Sam asks Walker for the shield and it devolves into a brawl between him and Sam/Bucky. Walker tells them they could've all worked together.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

So another trailer got dropped, Sam asks Walker for the shield and it devolves into a brawl between him and Sam/Bucky. Walker tells them they could've all worked together.

Well, reminds me of...

Sam, you do not yet realize your importance. You've only begun to discover your power! Join me, and I will complete your training! With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict, and bring order to the galaxy.