Fridays Child and the Prime Directive

[TOSalltheway]

Why was the Federation trying to get a mining treaty with a pre warp civilization ? Isn't this in violation of the Prime Directive ?

The only explanation I can think of is that the Klingons already spilled the beans that there are other worlds and more advanced civilizations therefore the damage was already done.

 

[fireproof78]

Pre-warp doesn't automatically ignorant of warp technology. Especially in TOS era where you have a lot more interactions such the Capellans (Friday's Child). McCoy reported serving there in the past. And Kirk went to Tyree's planet before too.

 

[Dukhat]

It’s not so much about being pre-warp (although that’s basically the usual point where the Federation initiates first contact), but rather the fear of cultural contamination. Since the Klingons already contacted the Capellans, that was taken off the table. The same situation presumably happened with Tyree’s planet, since Klingon interference happened there too. Same thing with all those pre-warp civilizations that early Starfleet ships visited before the advent of the Prime Directive.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

Hi There,

I think the original series was much less... strict about contact than later ones.
The rule was that they weren't to Interfere, not that they wouldn't have any contact.

That's why, say, Captain Tracy of the Exeter wasn't in violation of the Prime Directive
until he interfered with them.

Later series seem to think Any contact constitutes Interference.
(Which to my mind, goes against "Seek out new life and new civilizations.")

Scott Kellogg

 

[Christopher]

It could be that the Federation made contact with Capella before the Prime Directive was established. We know from "A Piece of the Action" that the PD is less than a hundred years old at the time of TOS, and Capella has evidently been known for some time.

As suggested, it could've been the Klingons who made first contact with them, or it could've been some other spacegoing people. It's a big galaxy.

Anyway, the whole "pre-warp" parameter was never introduced until TNG: "First Contact." It was never a factor in TOS. And it's a really silly standard, based on the extremely lazy assumption that inventing warp drive is the only possible way a civilization could make contact with alien life. Even if it wasn't visited by aliens, a technological civilization would probably detect alien races' communications, the emissions of their starship engines, the industrial activity and atmospheric pollution on their planets, or any number of other possible bio- or technosignatures through SETI astronomy long before they got around to inventing warp drive.

I think the original series was much less... strict about contact than later ones.
The rule was that they weren't to Interfere, not that they wouldn't have any contact.

It depends on the episode, since they were making it up as they went. "Bread and Circuses" established that the Prime Directive required "[n]o references to space, or the fact that there are other worlds or more advanced civilizations." But that was months after "Friday's Child," so I guess that idea hadn't been established yet. (Although it was forgotten many years later, in TNG: "Justice," before they made the PD really strict starting in season 2.)

 

[Timo]

Well, warp drive only emerges as a factor in "First Contact" because those local primitives haven't made contact any other way. With warp, they inevitably would.

No doubt the PD contains a provision for "the locals are just about to build a subspace ansible" and "the locals are just about to be visited by aliens we can't stop", but the former basically never happens (I'd imagine a warp engine is a much cruder application of subspace knowhow than a communicator) and the latter might happen basically every time (why would the Feds be there to stop anybody when Starfleet always arrives a tad too late anyway?). Still, the Feds would do their "First Contact" thing in such cases, sending in spies and all. And then they would beam down in full uniform, just like in "Friday's Child" et al.

I guess the only issue of interest here is, how exactly can our heroes determine whether a bunch of primitives has already lost their interstellar virginity or not? It's far from obvious in "Justice", say. We could always argue Starfleet sent in spies before sending McCoy in "Friday's Child", or that Kirk did a careful survey that revealed Tyree's folks already knew all about space aliens before getting all chatty about Starfleet with his local pal. But the folks of Rubicun are expicitly said to have been "discovered" by Picard's heroes, and a contact team in full uniform is said to be delivering the first news on how things are around there.

OTOH, nothing at all suggests the locals would be unaware of space aliens - they just don't go to space much, even aboard the ships of others, thanks to their jealous God being against it and all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Noname Given]

They had a rare mineral the Federation needed. Ergo the Federation council decided the Prime Directive didn't apply.

(Probably because they knew the Klingons would eventually come to the world as well, thus if the culture is going to be screwed; The Federation might as well be the one to screw it and mitigate the damage. Humans were more practical in the 23rd century than the 24th century when the Prime Directive became some sort of religious edict to the Federation, where mankind would rather see the Federation fall than break the Prime Directive.)

 

[Christopher]

They had a rare mineral the Federation needed. Ergo the Federation council decided the Prime Directive didn't apply.

The TOS and early TNG writers' bibles did, in fact, say that the Directive could be suspended when vital Federation interests were at stake.

Again, though, we don't know how long before "Friday's Child" the Capellans were contacted. It could've been before the PD existed. Or it could be that some other spacefarers contacted them first, because the UFP and the Klingons are not the only warp-capable civilizations out there.

 

[cgervasi]

Why was the Federation trying to get a mining treaty with a pre warp civilization ? Isn't this in violation of the Prime Directive ?

I wonder if they were supposed to be more advanced than they were depicted. When McCoy talked about them at the beginning, I didn't get the idea they were so poor and/or unsophisticated that it would be difficult to have any trade with them without being exploitative. When it looked like Maab seized power by having having some of his guys raid the tents of Akaar's guys and then he sat in a throne in the middle of a field, I thought they seemed very unsophisticated, at the level of an iron age society where they would have no concept of the price of topaline (the mineral Kirk was negotiating to buy) on interstellar markets. In this scenario Kirk could give them things of trifling value that would change their world.

My thought is they are somehow more advanced than they appear. Maybe they have more advanced technology and knowledge of interstellar affairs. Maybe the Ten Tribes are actually the last ten independent nation states united in a world government. hey live an apparently primitive existence because they see civilization as resting on a warrior caste following a code of honor, like feudal Knights, Samurai, or Klingon warriors.

Also they didn't have the budget to show an advanced civilization, and they couldn't just talk about how amazing their society was without showing any of it, in Voyager style.

EVANSVILLE: It would be an honor to show you our cities.
Captain's log, stardate 48975.1. Evansville wasn't exaggerating when he said they have a lot to be proud of here. It was an amazing experience, but it's left me a little disturbed.

CHAKOTAY: Is something wrong, Captain? You've seemed a little distracted ever since we came back from the cities. Weren't you impressed?
JANEWAY: A little too impressed.
CHAKOTAY: What do you mean?
JANEWAY: There's a thriving, sophisticated culture on this planet. Of human beings. In someways walking around those cities was almost like being back on Earth.

 

[Phaser Two]

And it's a really silly standard, based on the extremely lazy assumption that inventing warp drive is the only possible way a civilization could make contact with alien life.

I agree with this. The metric also ignores the possibility that a race might have the ability to develop warp travel, but might not be interested in exploration whatsoever. For example, I assume the Talosians could develop warp travel if they wanted to, as could the Organians, but it doesn't appear that they did. These are tricky examples because in each case, there were other factors in play concerning visitors to their planet (the death penalty for Talos IV and the Organians hiding their true nature). However, just because a race is pre-warp doesn't automatically mean it's too primitive for Federation contact.

The TOS and early TNG writers' bibles did, in fact, say that the Directive could be suspended when vital Federation interests were at stake.

Yup. I've always assumed this was the case with Capella IV.

Maybe the Ten Tribes are actually the last ten independent nation states united in a world government. hey live an apparently primitive existence because they see civilization as resting on a warrior caste following a code of honor, like feudal Knights, Samurai, or Klingon warriors.

Now this is fantastic. I never thought of this before and now I'm going to watch Friday's Child with a new eye. (Thanks!) This is a (pretty dramatic) extension of my idea above that just because you can develop certain technologies, that doesn't mean you must develop them.

I have always wondered about Maab's apparent comfort handling Kras's disruptor. Moreover, two of the Phaser Ones and Grant's (ahem) Phaser Two were never accounted for during the main sequence of events in the episode. (I figure that Starfleet collected them during the treaty negotiations.) But the line that has given me pause even more so for a long time comes from Akaar: "The sky does not interest me." That might very well mean even more than it says on its face, and reflect the attitude of the whole race.

 

[cgervasi]

II have always wondered about Maab's apparent comfort handling Kras's disruptor.

He was comfortable handling it and there was never any hint from Maab's people or Kirk's people that someone could steal it and become invincible, along the lines of A Private Little War.

But the line that has given me pause even more so for a long time comes from Akaar: "The sky does not interest me."

Kirk does not tell him that if the Klingons attack, they will destroy their society, along the lines of Errand of Mercy. Maybe the Klingon ship is more of a threat to the Enterprise than the planet.

 

[Timo]

Initially, the set of tents at which the meeting is to be held is called an "encampment". This would be consistent with Maab traveling from his great city to the location of the future topaline mine in order to negotiate in situ, while also honoring the ways of the old.

However, when the heroes beam down and wish to call their starship, Kras insinuates this is in order to have "their village" bombarded. This is still consistent with the idea that the bivouac is primitive even by Capellan standards, and their regular housing (somewhere else, if Kirk is to be believed as willing to bombard it while he himself stands in the middle of the tents!) might be in Napoleonic splendor, even if with ascetic undertones. But that ought to be familiar to Klingons in the greater Trek picture, yet Kras chooses to belittle the regular mode of habitation of the great leader he negotiates with, and stands next to, as a "village"!

For all we know, Kras is just being Klingon, showing honest contempt to his allies and enemies alike, and Maab actually appreciates this...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Phaser Two]

He was comfortable handling it and there was never any hint from Maab's people or Kirk's people that someone could steal it and become invincible, along the lines of A Private Little War.

Kirk does not tell him that if the Klingons attack, they will destroy their society, along the lines of Errand of Mercy. Maybe the Klingon ship is more of a threat to the Enterprise than the planet.

Great point about A Private Little War.
Kirk does sort of tell them that the Klingons are a threat, though, in a very Kirkian, polite-even-to-enemies manner. And the "small scout vessel" was evidently no match for (or wanted no part of) the Enterprise.

 

[Christopher]

I have always wondered about Maab's apparent comfort handling Kras's disruptor. Moreover, two of the Phaser Ones and Grant's (ahem) Phaser Two were never accounted for during the main sequence of events in the episode. (I figure that Starfleet collected them during the treaty negotiations.) But the line that has given me pause even more so for a long time comes from Akaar: "The sky does not interest me." That might very well mean even more than it says on its face, and reflect the attitude of the whole race.

A society can be familiar with advanced technology through interaction with other cultures, yet still continue living a fairly traditional-looking life. You can see this with various nomadic or village-based communities in various parts of the world, people who still live in their traditional ways yet are familiar with the advanced technology of their neighbors and visitors. Heck, I've read that there are people today who still live as hunter-gatherers, but who use computers and GPS to track their prey.

 

[Phaser Two]

A society can be familiar with advanced technology through interaction with other cultures, yet still continue living a fairly traditional-looking life. You can see this with various nomadic or village-based communities in various parts of the world, people who still live in their traditional ways yet are familiar with the advanced technology of their neighbors and visitors. Heck, I've read that there are people today who still live as hunter-gatherers, but who use computers and GPS to track their prey.

I like that point, Christopher. I guess at some stage the analogy breaks down between our beautiful little blue marble and a quadrant-spanning UFP, but it could very well explain the Capellans and the difference between Starfleet's approaches to them and, say, the Hill People of Neural. Along the same lines - and I hope I can be forgiven for this transgression/digression - it just never bothered me (unlike, apparently, tens of millions of other folks) that the Ewoks were immediately able to use Imperial weapons and equipment in Return of the Jedi. They probably knew all about their functions, particularly after the Empire put a base on their planet/moon, and they had technological capacity but rejected it as a society for whatever reason.

And I believe that is just the second time in about five years that I've ever mentioned THAT OTHER FRANCHISE on this board. I was wrong! I submit! I bare myself to the will of Landru!

 

[BK613]

And I believe that is just the second time in about five years that I've ever mentioned THAT OTHER FRANCHISE on this board. I was wrong! I submit! I bare myself to the will of Landru!

That reminds me of:

“Star Trek?” I asked her. “Really?”
“What?” she demanded, bending unnaturally black eyebrows together.
“There are two kinds of people in the universe, Molly,” I said. “Star Trek fans and Star Wars fans. This is shocking.”
She sniffed. “This is the post-nerd-closet world, Harry. It’s okay to like both.”
“Blasphemy and lies,” I said.”
― Jim Butcher, Ghost Story​

 

[Noname Given]

Great point about A Private Little War.
Kirk does sort of tell them that the Klingons are a threat, though, in a very Kirkian, polite-even-to-enemies manner. And the "small scout vessel" was evidently no match for (or wanted no part of) the Enterprise.

Both "Friday's Child" and "A Private Little War" also showcase something different about the 23rd century United Federation of Planets. In both of those episodes it was implied that the Prime Directive wasn't automatically applied.

Dr McCoy did a cultural planet survey in "Friday's Child", and Kirk did one in "A Private Little War", and it was after the latter survey was submitted that the Federation (where Kirk himself concluded in the report that the planet should be subject to the PD), invoked the Prime Directive for the planet Neural.

In McCoy's case obviously the Federation chose not to invoke the Prime Directive for Capella IV, probably because of the fact the mineral that was abundant on the planet was of use to the Federation.

And even in "The Omega Glory", it's interesting that Kirk and Co. technically find Captain Tracy in violation of the Prime Directive, when Captain Tracy himself states that as this was a new world he stayed behind after the initial landing party returned to the USS Exeter "to arrange for the planet survey with the village elders"...

I think it's more a case that technically, when making first contact with a new world, The Prime Directive temporarily always applies until a survey can be conducted to see if enforcement of it for the new planet in question should be maintained.

The above said it's kind of interesting in that to do the planet survey, The Federation representative in question has to break the Prime Directive to arrange for the planet survey. Remember that Tyree knew all about Kirk, and the Federation; but promised silence after Kirk left.
^^^
If that's the Federation's SOP in the 23rd century, what happens if the person or persons who are aware of the Federation representative's true origin decide (for whatever reason), to break their promise and reveal that their Planet was visited and surveyed by a being or beings from another world?

So yeah, In those terms the whole execution of the Prime Directive in the 23rd century has some interesting permutations.

 

[Christopher]

So yeah, In those terms the whole execution of the Prime Directive in the 23rd century has some interesting permutations.

That's an interesting analysis, and I wish it had continued to be done more as you describe, rather than going the whole "Keep your existence secret at all costs" route. The idea that the mere knowledge of alien life is somehow invariably destructive to a culture is bull. Cultures are more robust than that, able to adapt new ideas to fit their existing worldviews. The myth that contact with a more advanced culture automatically destroys a less advanced one is a copout, a way to absolve the West of guilt for the fact that they intentionally tried to eradicate other cultures and convert everyone to Western culture. There was a time when Europe was the less advanced culture gaining the knowledge of more advanced cultures to the East, like decimal numbers, the stirrup, the compass, the lateen sail, and gunpowder; but far from being destroyed by that knowledge, Europeans embraced it and thrived from it, because they were left to their own devices and free to use it as they chose, rather than being forced to conform to outsiders' ideas.

So really, it would've been better if the PD allowed contact and interaction as long as it wasn't coercive, as long as it was just about respecting other cultures' right to their own belief systems and self-government, rather than the condescension of "They're too primitive to handle knowing we exist." It should've been more just "make contact, but proceed carefully and don't impose."

 

[Hofner]

Speaking of comparing Star Trek to Star Wars,

There's an old book by Dean R; Koontz called "Strangers", I may be spoiling it but it's more than 30 years old.




The book is a contemporary story about a group of people who witnesses an alien spacecraft landing near them. Wanting to keep it a secret, the U.S. government brainwashes them into forgetting what happened. They start developing mental problems like a fear of the dark and nightmares due to being made to forget such a momentous occasion. One of them is a little girl who because of her mental block becomes withdrawn and autistic.

At the end of the book when they have remembered what happened and have found the alien spacecraft, the little girl starts to come out of her fugue when she sees the ship she was made to forget.

Her mother tells her it's an alien space ship and the little girl says "Like Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock?"

A man who had also been brain washed replies "Yes, like Luke Skywalker and Han Solo."

Maan, that dude sure was taking an awful chance comparing Star Wars to Star Trek with a little girl in such a fragile mental condition who's evidently a ST fan. I half expected her to scream and drop into a deep, permanent catatonic state.

Robert

 

[johnnybear]

I also like to think that McCoy visited Capella IV at the time of Errand of Mercy. Perhaps to warn them about the Klingon threat or even to offer them assistance in the possibility of a Klingon invasion! Plus also to learn of their culture and future admittance to the United federation of Planets!
JB