Orions & the Federation

[JonnyQuest037]

I don't understand how you can say that TOS wasn't set up to create a larger universe when that's exactly what it did. All of the Trek spinoffs are still using the basic framework that TOS established. Some of the shows have expanded greatly upon that framework, yes, but all Trek shows are still using elements like a united Earth, Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans, Orions, Andorians, Starfleet, the UFP, warp speed, the transporter, phasers, photon torpedoes, etc.

 

[Arpy]

^ I dunno, it often had things in flux. Starfleet had like five different names. Tech stuff like lithium to dilithium. A woman was second in command in the pilot, normal uniform, then we get mini skirts and no female captains. Time travel is a freak accident in one episode then standard research tool in another. Warp speeds were unclear — warp 14? The ship was darting to stars nowhere near each other and rather far away.

How far are we taking this? In TFF, the ship makes it to the center of the galaxy like it’s not unusual. In TWoK, Khan recognized Chekov when he wasn’t part of the crew till after “Space Seed.”

Are other series like this?

 

[dupersuper]

I don't understand how you can say that TOS wasn't set up to create a larger universe when that's exactly what it did.

Because sometimes things do things they weren't set up for...?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Blue Orions seems a bit much to me. I can see celadon green to lime to emerald to forest to nearly a black green, but blue? Maybe.

"The Pirates of Orion", TAS by Ian McLean, on Flickr

 

[Timo]

This is actually pretty close to what we got in "Will You Take My Hand?", for both sexes...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JLBTucker]

"The Pirates of Orion", TAS by Ian McLean, on Flickr

I do have to say that relaying on TAS for cannon alien color is um hard because color blind guy and limted budget and what not I mean Thelin here looks more like an anear with this color

 

[Timo]

...Perhaps he is?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JLBTucker]

...Perhaps he is?

Timo Saloniemi

That would be cool but according to cannon hes an Adnorian it was just because of the coloring processes of the show

 

[Timo]

Where's the problem? An Aenar is an Andorian.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JLBTucker]

Where's the problem? An Aenar is an Andorian.

Timo Saloniemi

well acording canon not an anear just a regular Andorian with limited animation color wich is why i love TAS its so wierd

 

[Timo]

...I still don't get the part where the Andorian would need to be "regular" to qualify. All of Trek is weird, and it's nice to see some of it accidentally tie together...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Arpy]

Sorry, I could never take coloring in TAS very seriously. It was a cartoon run by a color blind man. So we got Orion pirates with green uniforms instead of skin (“Hey, they’re mostly green, why the complainin’”), albino Andorians, and bright pink Kzinti ships and uniforms.

When Trek did decide to incorporate some of TAS’ elements into the live-action franchise, they kept the tough-guy Orion looks but not the coloring (in skin or uniforms), maybe drew inspiration from Thelin for the Aenar (that was kinda cool), and the Kzinti ships they were coming up with went red.

 

[Kor]

I like the 'frontier' feel of TOS, wherein a credible career change for a Starfleet captain is to settle in the Orion colonies and be an Orion pirate, I mean trader.

Kor

 

[Arpy]

I like the 'frontier' feel of TOS, wherein a credible career change for a Starfleet captain is to settle in the Orion colonies and be an Orion pirate, I mean trader.

Kor

Yeah, how does one combine the two — a Federation colony on Orion? At this point, that is.

Initially, I imagine that Earth had a colony on Orion where they traded in local “green animal women.” That is, if green animal women were local and not a galactic commodity from gods know what world. Orion pirates were human pirates from that barbarous colony. That is, until TAS showed Orions as aliens.

Maybe you could argue that they were aliens earlier as by “Whom the Gods Destroy” we saw that the green animal women were intelligent enough, so the Orion pirates could be of that green alien race.

Interpreting more contemporarily, maybe the Federation colony is an atypical one on an anarchistic Orion world. Some Federation members do as the locals do and live atypical Orion lives.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I do have to say that relaying on TAS for cannon alien color is um hard because color blind guy and limted budget and what not I mean Thelin here looks more like an anear with this color

That is not Thelin. They are Orion pirates.

Here is Thelin the [Aenar] Andorian. Several novels have since identified Thelin as an Aenar/Andorian hybrid.


Commander Thelin by Ian McLean, on Flickr


Thelin in "Myriad Universes" by Ian McLean, on Flickr

 

[JLBTucker]

That is not Thelin. They are Orion pirates.

Here is Thelin the [Aenar] Andorian. Several novels have since identified Thelin as an Aenar/Andorian hybrid.


Commander Thelin by Ian McLean, on Flickr


Thelin in "Myriad Universes" by Ian McLean, on Flickr

Like I said beta content as much as i like that verson its not cannon

 

[tesral]

can⋅on 1  /ˈkænən/ [kan-uhn] –noun

• 1. an ecclesiastical rule or law enacted by a council or other competent authority and, in the Roman Catholic Church, approved by the pope.
• 2. the body of ecclesiastical law.
• 3. the body of rules, principles, or standards accepted as axiomatic and universally binding in a field of study or art: the neoclassical canon.
• 4. a fundamental principle or general rule: the canons of good behavior.
• 5. a standard; criterion: the canons of taste.
• 6. the books of the Bible recognized by any Christian church as genuine and inspired.
• 7. any officially recognized set of sacred books.
• 8. any comprehensive list of books within a field.
• 9. the works of an author that have been accepted as authentic: There are 37 plays in the Shakespeare canon. Compare apocrypha (def. 3).
• 10. a catalog or list, as of the saints acknowledged by the Church.
• 11. Liturgy. the part of the Mass between the Sanctus and the Communion.
• 12. Eastern Church. a liturgical sequence sung at matins, usually consisting of nine odes arranged in a fixed pattern.
• 13. Music. consistent, note-for-note imitation of one melodic line by another, in which the second line starts after the first.
• 14. Printing. a 48-point type.
• 15. An argument on Star Trek forums used to beat other Trekkies over the head.

 

[JLBTucker]

can⋅on 1  /ˈkænən/ [kan-uhn] –noun

• 1. an ecclesiastical rule or law enacted by a council or other competent authority and, in the Roman Catholic Church, approved by the pope.
• 2. the body of ecclesiastical law.
• 3. the body of rules, principles, or standards accepted as axiomatic and universally binding in a field of study or art: the neoclassical canon.
• 4. a fundamental principle or general rule: the canons of good behavior.
• 5. a standard; criterion: the canons of taste.
• 6. the books of the Bible recognized by any Christian church as genuine and inspired.
• 7. any officially recognized set of sacred books.
• 8. any comprehensive list of books within a field.
• 9. the works of an author that have been accepted as authentic: There are 37 plays in the Shakespeare canon. Compare apocrypha (def. 3).
• 10. a catalog or list, as of the saints acknowledged by the Church.
• 11. Liturgy. the part of the Mass between the Sanctus and the Communion.
• 12. Eastern Church. a liturgical sequence sung at matins, usually consisting of nine odes arranged in a fixed pattern.
• 13. Music. consistent, note-for-note imitation of one melodic line by another, in which the second line starts after the first.
• 14. Printing. a 48-point type.
• 15. An argument on Star Trek forums used to beat other Trekkies over the head.

ok that's funny Ill admit it

 

[Timo]

Yeah, how does one combine the two — a Federation colony on Orion? At this point, that is.

Or an Orion colony in the Federation. After all, that's the wording used - "the Orion colony".

There's one (or several) in "The Doomsday Machine", too. More interestingly, there's one in "Will You Take My Hand?", on Qo'noS. The Orions apparently like to establish businesses around.

Interpreting more contemporarily, maybe the Federation colony is an atypical one on an anarchistic Orion world. Some Federation members do as the locals do and live atypical Orion lives.

Or then not, which would then be the point of the discussion.

Really, Orion here would seem to stand for Orient. White slavery by barbarians of vaguely Islamic allegiance used to be a very real thing in the Mediterranean, and tall tales about opulent and steamy harems were legion. And for the large part apparently true, but that's beside the point - while "tall tales" would be the very thing. Pike here quite seriously ponders setting up a business in the Orient - so Boyce, full of good-natured mischief, ridicules him for wanting to set up a harem instead, because that's the stereotype (again apparently true, but again that's beside the point).

It might not be possible in practice for a human to start dealing in Orion slaves at/through the Orion colony. But that's how the joke works: "Perhaps I'll set up a business in Atlanta" / "Oh, sweet, have you bought the whips and the chains already?". And it never warrants more than a scoff from Pike. Although (and again this is a separate thing, although not utterly irrelevant) this is the very fantasy Pike has topmost in mind for the Talosians to exploit, at least from that point on...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Orphalesion]

Although (and again this is a separate thing, although not utterly irrelevant) this is the very fantasy Pike has topmost in mind for the Talosians to exploit, at least from that point on...

Timo Saloniemi

So he's into dominance roleplay, nothing wrong with that