Curious how well the Discovery novels tie in with what's been canonically depicted onscreen!

[Damian]

Not really a surprise, after all, Alex Kurtzman worked on 2 of the 3 Abramsverse movies. The window on the bridge is a dead give away, and the transporter effect and warp effect is similar.

In a way, it almost would have made sense if these movies were part of the Kelvin-verse instead of the prime universe. And Discovery-Spock had some similarities to Kelvin-Spock (and Discovery-Pike felt somewhat like Kelvin-Pike, though in that case I also see some of Hunter as well so that could go either way). The designs 'feel' more appropriate to that universe. But then I imagine since Paramount and CBS were sort of separated that would have caused complications, plus I'm not sure how that would have played out with the masses.

And the Klingon War would have fit very well with STID. Admiral Marcus was convinced a Klingon War was imminent. I mean, they may have had to change the year Discovery takes place if they wanted it to take place after STID, but otherwise it would have felt like a natural follow up to STID.

 

[Christopher]

In a way, it almost would have made sense if these movies were part of the Kelvin-verse instead of the prime universe. ... The designs 'feel' more appropriate to that universe.

Design is not story. John Byrne's Superman was drawn in the same style as John Byrne's Fantastic Four, but they were in two separate universes. Star Wars: The Clone Wars is in a very different animation style than Star Wars Resistance, but they're in the same universe.

And Discovery-Spock had some similarities to Kelvin-Spock (and Discovery-Pike felt somewhat like Kelvin-Pike, though in that case I also see some of Hunter as well so that could go either way).

DSC and Kelvin Spock are both younger versions of the character -- DSC Spock in 2257-8, Kelvin in 2258-63. Presumably their similarities are due to that, rather than just some desire to copy Kelvin.

In the case of Pike, though, it's natural enough that they'd want to emulate Bruce Greenwood's very successful version of the character. Really, if you think about it, the Pike of "The Cage" was not his normal self, as he was suffering from depression after a painful loss. So it's logical to conclude that the Kelvin version of Pike was a better representation of his normal personality than "The Cage" was.

 

[Damian]

In the case of Pike, though, it's natural enough that they'd want to emulate Bruce Greenwood's very successful version of the character. Really, if you think about it, the Pike of "The Cage" was not his normal self, as he was suffering from depression after a painful loss. So it's logical to conclude that the Kelvin version of Pike was a better representation of his normal personality than "The Cage" was.

In the case of Pike I thought Mount did a good job channeling both Hunter and Greenwood. I see elements of both in his portrayal, plus some things that I'm sure that Mount is bringing to the table. I was pretty happy with Mount's portrayal in Discovery.

 

[Tuskin38]

And Discovery-Spock had some similarities to Kelvin-Spock

He was Pre-TOS Spock, and was having a mental breakdown, we really haven’t seen a lot of him after the Talosians fixed him to really judge.

Also Remember In the Cage he was pretty emotional.

 

[Christopher]

Also Remember In the Cage he was pretty emotional.

"The women!!"

 

[fireproof78]

I though Discovery Spock lined up with moving from The Cage to Where No Man has Gone Before. Which was a difference so distinct that that the New Voyages comic felt the need to explain it.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Not having read the New Voyages comic, I have to ask: how did they explain it?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Not having read the New Voyages comic, I have to ask: how did they explain it?

It was Star Trek: Early Voyages, not New Voyages. They had a two-part story in issue #s 5 & 6 (taking place right after "The Cage") where the crew encountered a group of Vulcans who'd broken away before Surak's logic reformation. Thus, they were emotional and violent. At the end of the story, Spock

Spoiler: Early Voyages Spock

underwent a sort of purging of his emotions, as he became convinced that they were potentially too damaging.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Early_Voyages_Vol_1_5

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Early_Voyages_Vol_1_6

 

[fireproof78]

It was Star Trek: Early Voyages, not New Voyages. They had a two-part story in issue #s 5 & 6 (taking place right after "The Cage") where the crew encountered a group of Vulcans who'd broken away before Surak's logic reformation. Thus, they were emotional and violent. At the end of the story, Spock

Spoiler: Early Voyages Spock

underwent a sort of purging of his emotions, as he became convinced that they were potentially too damaging.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Early_Voyages_Vol_1_5

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Early_Voyages_Vol_1_6

Thank you. Of course I got the name wrong.

 

[The Wormhole]

But then I imagine since Paramount and CBS were sort of separated that would have caused complications

The decision not to make Disco part of the Kelvin Timeline had nothing to do with rights issues or Paramount and CBS's marital status. The decision was made by Bryan Fuller who believing there would continue to be Kelvin movies on a regular basis didn't want to have to coordinate the series around movie releases.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Thank you. Of course I got the name wrong.

Easy mistake to make! I didn't realize it was wrong until I started looking up the Marvel issues.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The decision not to make Disco part of the Kelvin Timeline had nothing to do with rights issues or Paramount and CBS's marital status. The decision was made by Bryan Fuller who believing there would continue to be Kelvin movies on a regular basis didn't want to have to coordinate the series around movie releases.

That makes a great deal of sense. I really wonder what the Bryan Fuller version of DSC would've been like.

 

[Tuskin38]

I really wonder what the Bryan Fuller version of DSC would've been like.

Well, we know for sure that we would have still have had the new Klingons designs and starfleet ships, those design changes were approved before he left the show.

The Pilot episode still has him listed as writer, but who knows how much of what he wrote was used in the episode.

the Mirror universe in his version was going to show up in the first half of the season instead of the second half, apparently the Discovery could disguise itself as a Klingon ship somehow.

 

[The Wormhole]

the Mirror universe in his version was going to show up in the first half of the season instead of the second half,

IIRC, in Fuller's version it wasn't the Mirror Universe but rather another alternate universe where the Battle at the Binary Stars played out differently, setting into motion events which led to Michael getting promoted. Lorca still would have been from this reality with his interest in giving Michael a shot at redemption being based on what he knew of her from this reality.

I think this ended up being used as the basis for the alternate reality featured in the novel Dead Endless.

 

[JD]

This isn't directed at anyone in this thread, it's just a general statement.
I think a lot of the people who have a problem with Discovery not looking like TOS forget that it isn't just set before TOS, it's also set 300 years from today. The people working on the show had the choice to emphasize one or the other, and they chose to emphasize 300 years from today, which for me was the right choice. I love the production design for Disco, and like I've said before, even the Klingons grew on me, once the initial shock of how different they look wore off.
The Discoprise if my favorite version of the pre-refit Enterprise, and I look forward to seeing a lot more of her in Strange New Worlds.

 

[Christopher]

I think a lot of the people who have a problem with Discovery not looking like TOS forget that it isn't just set before TOS, it's also set 300 years from today. The people working on the show had the choice to emphasize one or the other, and they chose to emphasize 300 years from today, which for me was the right choice.

Yup. As I've said before, the makers of TOS didn't want it to look like it was made in the '60s; they wanted it to look futuristic but had to settle for what they could manage with available resources. They would have been the first to redesign everything given the chance -- and that's exactly what they did in TMP.

 

[Tuskin38]

They would have been the first to redesign everything given the chance -- and that's exactly what they did in TMP.

You know what they're going to say about that "It's set after TOS, not before"

 

[Unicorn]

I would put The Way to the Stars and Fear Itself as the best Discovery books so far.

Agreed

 

[Christopher]

You know what they're going to say about that "It's set after TOS, not before"

Which doesn't really work as an explanation; we just pretend it does. Yes, in the few years between TOS/TAS and TMP, there could be a range of tech upgrades, but surely not everything would be simultaneously redesigned and replaced in the span of just 3-4 years, not only every single piece of Starfleet equipment, uniforms, and technology but every piece of Klingon and Vulcan gear as well. That's a totally ridiculous handwave that falls apart if you apply the tiniest amount of logic. The passage of time was just an excuse, a totally feeble one that we all just went along with because we wanted to, because the impressiveness of the new designs was worth it. It shouldn't be taken too literally.

The truth is simply that the filmmakers chose to redesign everything from top to bottom because they were moving to the big screen for the first time and wanted the universe to look far more impressive than it had on TV. We've forgotten in this age of HDTV just how small and low-resolution the typical TV image was at the time, and how many people saw TOS only in black-and-white or with a static-laden picture. And movie screens back then were larger on the average as well. So they needed to start from scratch and create far more detailed designs, designs that were at once less minimalist and more subtle, since they didn't have to register on a tiny, fuzzy picture tube anymore.

And the same argument applies now -- the typical TV picture today is far more detailed and clear than the typical picture in the '60s or the '90s, so a different aesthetic is called for. That's the only explanation needed for any design changes. How we handwave it in-story is secondary.

 

[Damian]

That's a totally ridiculous handwave that falls apart if you apply the tiniest amount of logic.

Logic...logic, I'm sick to death of logic. You want to know what I think about logic?

Um, wait, I think I've heard that somewhere before.

BTW, I was checking out upcoming releases and I see you have another movie era novel coming out. I assume it follows from the Ex Machina narrative. I really enjoyed the first 2 books and it's great to see another pre-TWOK novel that does some worldbuilding linking TMP and TWOK.