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Romulan power

It's funny how the outposts have their ordinals as well, only in Arabic-with-full-stop... The map is a mess typographically, too, with odd spacing of the letters in the various textlets, and a scale bar that doesn't correspond to anything much. But endless fun as a solid canon source for speculation!

The "many campaigns" thing is doubly covered by these folks being Romulans: they supposedly left Vulcan to defend their birthright of fighting each other, yet they also live for centuries so these very characters could well have fought Earthmen earlier in their careers.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I'd say that Romii an abbreviation for Romulus II, or any of RomII, Rom. II, or Rom II, as you may prefer; being in all caps obscures what I think is obviously a Roman numeral II.
Deciphering the map more, large red star Romulus has a yellow ring around it. I can buy that this indicates a solar system and/or the capital home world, while the other named star Romii/Romulus II is yellow with no ring. There are several smaller colored stars, but no names. The two named stars could be in a large-orbit, binary star system with planet(s) only around Romulus. I think it is given that planet Romulus orbits star Romulus. Where's planet Remus? Might be around Romulus or Romii/Romulus II, but it could be off map, too. :shrug:

After 100 years of strict abidance, I theorize that the Romulan incursion was to demonstrate to Earth that they will no longer abide to the peace treaty, anymore. Regardless of the outcome, we now bring in the (weak) Federation negotiators. :rommie:
 
Romulans love to posture, but their "invasions" always appear abortive or even illusory, conducted for reasons other than military victory ("The Defector", "Unification"). This one nicely fits the pattern: a breach of enemy defenses is not followed by immediate exploiting of the breach, even though this means there will never be a second chance.

"Romulus" might be both the name of the capital planet and the name of its star, the map displaying the latter and therefore covering both of the planets. Or at least this would be the human perception of the situation.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I'd say that Romii an abbreviation for Romulus II, or any of RomII, Rom. II, or Rom II, as you may prefer; being in all caps obscures what I think is obviously a Roman numeral II.
In which case it would be a hell of a coincidence, since romii also directly connects to the Eastern Roman Empire (aka the Byzantine Empire):
"The national name of our ancestors throughout all these years is “Romans”, or “Romee” (in Greek “Romií”, Pronounced “Rome-ee-ee” Plural for “Romeos”), in the popular form of the language. In every one of the historical sources, without exception, the Empire of Constantinople refers to itself as “Roman”, or “Romania” (=land of the Romans) in the popular form of the language, while its emperors, up to and including Constantine Paleologos, were known as “king of the Romans”." source (chapter 2 - So, Hellenes or Romans?).​
 
In which case it would be a hell of a coincidence, since romii also directly connects to the Eastern Roman Empire (aka the Byzantine Empire):
"The national name of our ancestors throughout all these years is “Romans”, or “Romee” (in Greek “Romií”, Pronounced “Rome-ee-ee” Plural for “Romeos”), in the popular form of the language. In every one of the historical sources, without exception, the Empire of Constantinople refers to itself as “Roman”, or “Romania” (=land of the Romans) in the popular form of the language, while its emperors, up to and including Constantine Paleologos, were known as “king of the Romans”." source (chapter 2 - So, Hellenes or Romans?).​
:shrug: That's pretty arcane, but I concede the possibility that it might be related.

edited to add: It would seem that there are different schools of thought on how to render the term in the Latin alphabet.

One of the issues I have with the rendition "Romii" is that various sources, including yours, claim that this is a Greek term, and yet it is not rendered in the Greek alphabet. The actual Greek term in question appears to have been Ρωμαίοι or Ρωμηιοί. The sources cited in the Wikipedia article quoted below render the term in Latin in the Latin alphabet as "Romioi," which is closer to a straight transliteration.

Plus, this is the name of a people, not a place.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Greeks#Identity:

The Greeks were a self-conscious group within the larger Christian Orthodox religious community established by the Ottoman Empire.[7] They distinguished themselves from their Orthodox co-religionists by retaining their Greek culture, customs, language, and tradition of education.[7][8] Throughout the post-Byzantine and Ottoman periods, Greeks, as members of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, declared themselves as Graikoi (Greek: Γραικοί, "Greeks") and Romaioi or Romioi (Greek: Ρωμαίοι/Ρωμηιοί, "Romans").[9][10][11]

[...]

7. Harrison 2002, pp. 276–277: "The Greeks belonged to the community of the Orthodox subjects of the Sultan. But within that larger unity they formed a self-conscious group marked off from their fellow Orthodox by language and culture and by a tradition of education never entirely interrupted, which maintained their Greek identity."
8. Volkan & Itzkowitz 1994, p. 85: "While living as a millet under the Ottoman Empire they retained their own religion, customs, and language, and the 'Greeks became the most important non-Turkish element in the Ottoman Empire'."
9. Kakavas 2002, p. 29: "All the peoples belonging to the flock of the Ecumenical Patriarchate declared themselves Graikoi (Greeks) or Romaioi (Romans - Rums)."
10. Institute for Neohellenic Research 2005, p. 8: "The people we have named as Greeks (Hellenes in the Greek language) would not describe themselves as such – they are generally known as Romioi and Graikoi – but according to their context the meaning of these words broadens to include or exclude population groups of another language and, at the same time, ethnicity."
11. Hopf 1873, "Epistola Theodori Zygomalae", p. 236: "...ησάν ποτε κύριοι Αθηνών, και ενωτίζοντο, ότι η νέων Ρωμαίων είτε Γραικών βασιλεία ασθενείν άρχεται..."​
 
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@CorporalCaptain IDK why the difference as I don't speak Greek. Informal vs formal forms of the words? Regional dialect? Anglicization? I just find it interesting that the term ROMII relates to the Empire and naturally wonder if its use was an accident, that's all. Here are some more instances of the use:

Reconstructing home among the enemies parag 3 and 4
Marrying a Foe note 4
Ours Once More google book snippets

And FWIW, prior to this episode, Romulus was not a place and just a person (albeit, a mythological one.) ;)
 
@CorporalCaptain IDK why the difference as I don't speak Greek. Informal vs formal forms of the words? Regional dialect? Anglicization? I just find it interesting that the term ROMII relates to the Empire and naturally wonder if its use was an accident, that's all. Here are some more instances of the use:

Reconstructing home among the enemies parag 3 and 4
Marrying a Foe note 4
Ours Once More google book snippets

And FWIW, prior to this episode, Romulus was not a place and just a person (albeit, a mythological one.) ;)
To address the last point first, if the historical name of the Greeks was somehow being adapted, it seems that either it would be a people's name repurposed as a proper place name or it would have the diagram sloppily be saying something like "the Romii people are here, but over there is one of the twin planets, Romulus." That second option would just be weird, because of the inconsistent labeling. Since grammatically it is plural, the first option is weird also.

My overarching point is that there is too much ambiguity to know whether the historical name of the Greeks was being referenced. The word isn't even mentioned in the episode at all. Behind the scenes info would be necessary to resolve it.

The points I was raising in the previous post were about the different types of ambiguity even when it comes to the historical name of the Greeks itself. The net effect is that, based on the information at hand and in my humble opinion, Romii is not more plausible than RomII (i.e., Romulus II or Rom. II, etc.). Also, the use of capital letters in the diagram obliterates information that might have resolved the ambiguity at least to make the former more likely.
 
It's as if two different groups are presenting the same information. In universe, Starfleet cartography prepared the star map and Kirk provided the verbal history. In reality, the prop master prepared the star map and the script writer provided the words. :)
 
I think maybe the Romulan map is all they have of that area of space and that perhaps they don't know much about what lies beyond Romulan space! This would explain the many campaigns chat as the Romulans do know what is there and have been subjugating it with their plasma weaponry and Birds of Prey! In The Way To Eden we discover that the planet Eden is in Romulan space and the Enterprise must cross the Neutral Zone to get there and in TNG we learn of other worlds too! Plus they have turned their attention back to Earth as their problems have eased elsewhere in their empire! :vulcan:
JB
 
I think maybe the Romulan map is all they have of that area of space and that perhaps they don't know much about what lies beyond Romulan space!

Well, the map is of "Earth outpost sector Z-6". Is this the only such sector in existence, or do we also have A-1 through Z-99? If so, why is Z-6 the one with outpost #1 (or does every sector have those?) and why is the sector closest to Romulus itself given the letter Z and the number 6 when something like A-1 would appear more natural for this most important sector of them all?

Or is the label for Outpost 6, more fully known as (or its region of responsibility known as) Earth Outpost, Sector Z-6, while the outpost below is named Earth Outpost, Sector Z-5 but not labeled on this map that happens to be concentrating on the burning issue of "is Z-6 still there"?

In any case, scale issues rear their uglier ends again: an Outpost should be capable of scanning at least as far as the next Outpost position, and preferably one Outpost beyond that for basic redundancy. This would allow them to scan the place marked Romulus, too, even if just barely. Moreover, in order to pose any threat to Romulans trying to break out, an Outpost should be able to extend its destructive effect to the next Outpost and again preferably at least one Outpost beyond that. Did the Romulans manage to blow a sufficient gap in the defensive chain to stop the Outposts from giving Kirk firecover throughout the chase?

In The Way To Eden we discover that the planet Eden is in Romulan space and the Enterprise must cross the Neutral Zone to get there and in TNG we learn of other worlds too!

Including, in the final episode, a world actually located inside the thickness of the Neutral Zone, inaccessible to both parties... Basically the final nail in the coffin of the "small map, thin RNZ" model.

Plus they have turned their attention back to Earth as their problems have eased elsewhere in their empire! :vulcan:

Yup. But a Romulan might not be in a hurry to share his attention. With a lifetime measured in centuries, they might not even have noticed that they failed to bother the Earthlings between the 2160s and the 2260s...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Well, the map is of "Earth outpost sector Z-6". Is this the only such sector in existence, or do we also have A-1 through Z-99? If so, why is Z-6 the one with outpost #1 (or does every sector have those?) and why is the sector closest to Romulus itself given the letter Z and the number 6 when something like A-1 would appear more natural for this most important sector of them all?

Because maps don't work like that?
 
We must also not forget that Romulan space also borders the Klingon Empire! This we found out during the sequel shows after many years of bitterness between both races in TNG, DS9 and which eventually began before the Khitomer assault and the Praxis explosion which led into The Undiscovered Country and the Romulan ambassador urging the Federation to attack the Klingons as they would never be on their knees like this again! The only problem I have with this scene is why are the Federation having the Romulan government in on talks on attacking the Klingons when at this time both races are supposed allies and hadn't yet become full blood enemies? :vulcan::klingon:
JB
 
Because maps don't work like that?

They sorta do. I mean, we can trivialize it all and claim that this is a military map where everything is deliberately confusing. But we can't claim that this would be a zoom-in to a generic galaxy-wide map where the action just happens to coincide with reasonable "coordinates"/"indices" Z and 6. Both are way too low for representing a random snippet of space, for starters - unless we argue that the numbering and lettering start at the vicinity of Romulus for some reason.

But since this is a map of the Romulans and the chicken fence erected around them, its point of origin really ought to be where the focus is. For that purpose, Z is too big: the zero-zero of the 2D map shouldn't lie in empty space 25 letters away from the map focus.

Now, we can always find a Goldilocks interpretation where Z-6 makes good sense. Say, if one wants to surround an eggshell that has the curvature of the stretch of RNZ seen here, one might well do it with 25 letter-coded strings of eightish outposts as shown...

The only problem I have with this scene is why are the Federation having the Romulan government in on talks on attacking the Klingons when at this time both races are supposed allies and hadn't yet become full blood enemies? :vulcan::klingon:

We don't know if Klingons and Romulans ever were allies. All we know is that Romulans once operated ships of "Klingon design". Previously they had operated ships of Andorian design, of Vulcan design, and of Earth design...

We do hear of Klingons fighting Romulans back in the early 2270s already, though, if Kor's boasts weren't merely the old fool misremembering either the date or the opponent. By the time of Camp Khitomer talks, there would be a couple of decades of hostilities between the two empires again, unless they had an on-off-on-off affair going on (and off) that we know little about.

TUC suggests Romulans were (insincere) allies of the Federation in the early 2290s. It also indirectly suggests they additionally were (equally insincere) allies of the Klingons simultaneously, without telling of this to the Feds, or of the Fed deal to the Klingons. After all, the Feds and the Klingons had until then kept their war to the cold side (at least for some time after Organia and Burnham's War); something would have had to change to give both sides the simultaneous belief that going hot would be a good idea right now. And the Romulans sweet-talking both sides into it seems to be the whole point here: they'd either agree to stand aside and not ally with the enemy, or then actually promise support. And so the war would get going, the Romulans would take two steps back and watch, and eventually the quadrant would be their oyster, even if a slightly charred one.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Now, we can always find a Goldilocks interpretation where Z-6 makes good sense. Say, if one wants to surround an eggshell that has the curvature of the stretch of RNZ seen here, one might well do it with 25 letter-coded strings of eightish outposts as shown...

Or the map on-screen in BOT was only an enlarged portion of a map of known space/exploration limits , with A-1 the upper left hand corner location of the map, and ZZ-99 the lower right hand corner. This might put Z-6 almost in the center of the entire map.
 
Burnham's war as you call it is in another reality! The Romulans being cosy with the Federation is an okay idea if only we had had that in writing! It just seems odd that they would have a Romulan official in talks while contemplating attacking the Klingon empire!!! Kirk and Spock know how duplicitous the Romulans are, so don't the on high ever read their Captain's reports?
JB
 
Well, humans are just as duplicitous, by the same token even: Kirk matches their vile tricks blow by blow in all the relevant episodes. The two cultures would make for splendid bedfellows in the upcoming fight against the Klingons, really.

And IMHO the Klingon war in That Other Show is one of the best things ever to happen to TOS continuity. Now we learn exactly where Kirk earned his reputation as a great warrior and leader, during his tender early years as an officer and (duplicitous) gentleman...

Timo Saloniemi
 
@CorporalCaptain Sorry about the delay; been focused on the US Senate the last few days.
Greek diglossia
Edit to add:
It's a bit of a long read but the part I thought relevant to the Greek spelling issue was:
"Imagine a Greek member of Parliament in 1900. He could choose from amongst three words for “fish” — not three words with slightly different meanings, but three words expressing exactly the same thing. In ordinary conversation, he would have just said ψαρι /psari/ (Demotic), but during a Parliamentary debate he might speak about οψαριον /opsarion/ (Katharevousa). But if he were writing a report on the Ottoman harassment of Greek fishermen, he might write, perhaps to just show off, ιχθυς /ichthys/ (Attic)."​
 
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If impulse engines are gravity drives, then external nozzles are not needed. If impulse power is from fusion reactors, then cooling systems and/or vents might be visible on the external hull.
You could say the red glow is just for heat rejection, so am EM-pulse drive ship can back up even with the impulse deck not having to face forward.

TOS designs ran colder, I suppose. Refit era ships, less stealthy?
 
Also, TOS era: glow only during strain. TMP era: glow intensity varies with strain. TNG era: constant glow.

Perhaps power levels steadily go up while power management improves?

Timo Saloniemi
 
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